Yet Another Question (actually 2 questions):

Yakuda said:
Ok. I'll start with a simple question, which side of the political aisle has suggested that right and wrong is really a matter of personal opinion and not based on any objective truth?
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I do not know, Yakuda. I don't remember that issue being discussed...and I am not aware that one side of the political aisle favors one side of your proposed question over the other. I, personally, think that most right and wrong decisions are a matter of personal opinion...but there seem to be many objective truths about right and wrong that I can see.

Torturing a fellow being would seem objectively to fall under wrong...while helping a fellow being seems a lot closer to right. Taking a dump out in the streets of a city seems that way also...as does most kinds of stealing or wonton destruction of property.

Giving special significance to a particular day of the week, though, seems to be a "right or wrong" decision, rather than something intrinsic.

Have I been asleep about this? Is there one side that politically favors one evaluation over the other...with the other side favoring the opposite over the other?


Yakuda said:
If you prefer a private conversation make it happen.
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I'd prefer the discussion to be open...so others can contribute if they choose.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I'm wondering how many people posting here in JPP want more work and less leisure time during what remains of their lifetimes.[/SIZE][/B]

So here are the two questions (One is just the converse of the other):

1) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you must do more work and have less leisure time during what remains of your lifetime?

2) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you have more leisure time and have to do less work during what remains of your lifetime?

If possible, I'd like you to answer #1 with a YES or NO; answer # 2 with a YES or NO...and add any comments you want to add after doing so.

Also if you truly do not care either way...just state that.

Thanks.
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This is the standard Marxist whining that represents the Marxist argument for demanding an unworkable Utopia.

Marxists refuse to look at the value one adds to society while only rec ognizing the (manual) labor one performs. Any value that a banker or business owner adds to society is dismissed out of hand under the pretense that he is not laboring, but is, in fact, EXPLOITING unspecified others who are laboring.

So Marxists whine and bitch and complain and gripe and snivel about people having to labor as a reality in this world where people need to eat and need shelter. Marxist bemoan people having to survive as being so totally unfair. They complain to no end that remaining alive cuts into their liesure time. They say stupid things like "20 hours per week is enough" (to deserve being handed a living wage).

The stupid question in the OP is a leading one. Of course everyone would love to be filthy rich, retire young and have every moment of the rest of his life be liesure time. When all of your time is liesure time, you can work if you want to.

It's just that Marxists want everyone to just agree to stop laboring and begin taking liesure time. Let's redo CHAZ, but this time let's make it everywhere!

After all, wouldn't you like things to work out such that you have more liesure time?
 
Ross Dolan said:
I do not know, Yakuda. I don't remember that issue being discussed...and I am not aware that one side of the political aisle favors one side of your proposed question over the other. I, personally, think that most right and wrong decisions are a matter of personal opinion...but there seem to be many objective truths about right and wrong that I can see.

Torturing a fellow being would seem objectively to fall under wrong...while helping a fellow being seems a lot closer to right. Taking a dump out in the streets of a city seems that way also...as does most kinds of stealing or wonton destruction of property.

Giving special significance to a particular day of the week, though, seems to be a "right or wrong" decision, rather than something intrinsic.

Have I been asleep about this? Is there one side that politically favors one evaluation over the other...with the other side favoring the opposite over the other?



I'd prefer the discussion to be open...so others can contribute if they choose
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I literally wrote that one side sees right and wrong as a personal choice and and you agreed which confirms my claim since it's clear to anyone who can read that you and I occupy different sides of the political aisle.

Can we agree slavery was a moral evil even when it was legal? If what's right or wrong is a personal choice couldnt people own slaves based on their personal view of whether slavery is right or wrong?

You may have been asleep I don't know. I dont spend any time with you other than when you are here and while you are here is seems as though you're not asleep but again I am not sure.

I don't believe I ever mentioned a private conversation did I?
 
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Yakuda said:
I literally wrote that one side sees right and wrong as a personal choice and and you agreed which confirms my claim since it's clear to anyone who can read that you and I occupy different sides of the political aisle.
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I did not agree. I do not see one side of the aisle as saying "right and wrong is a personal choice" and one side saying it is an "absolute."

I certainly do not think that right and wrong is a personal choice...or an absolute. There are times where it is one thing...and other times where it is the other.
Yakuda said:
Can we agree slavery was a moral evil even when it was legal?
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Slavery is a moral evil no matter whether legal or illegal. It is a disgusting abomination.

WE CAN AGREE.


Yakuda said:
If what's right or wrong is a personal choice couldnt people own slaves based on their personal view of whether slavery is right or wrong?
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NO. If it is a personal choice...some would consider it to be morally correct...and others would consider it to be morally repugnant.

That is one of the problems I have with the god of the Bible. That god was of the opinion that slavery was morally correct.
Yakuda said:
You may have been asleep I don't know. I dont spend any time with you other than when you are here and while you are here is seems as though you're not asleep but again I am not sure.
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Okay...but I do not remember this subject being discussed.

My opinion is that "right and wrong" can at times be "absolute"...and at other times...a matter of personal opinion.

Are you saying you do not see any "right or wrong" things as being a matter of personal choice...or are you saying that you do not see any "right or wrong" things as being absolute?
Yakuda said:
I don't believe I ever mentioned a private conversation did I?
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I offered it as an option, because of what you said. You mentioned, "Well my genuine response to your question at the end there would likely trigger an unproductive conversation. I wish we could talk openly about it but people get defensive and things seem to unravel from there"...so I offered to speak to the issue with you by PM.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I'm wondering how many people posting here in JPP want more work and less leisure time during what remains of their lifetimes.

So here are the two questions (One is just the converse of the other):

1) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you must do more work and have less leisure time during what remains of your lifetime?

2) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you have more leisure time and have to do less work during what remains of your lifetime?

If possible, I'd like you to answer #1 with a YES or NO; answer # 2 with a YES or NO...and add any comments you want to add after doing so.

Also if you truly do not care either way...just state that.

Thanks.
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Two stupid questions. Troll thread.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I'm wondering how many people posting here in JPP want more work and less leisure time during what remains of their lifetimes.

So here are the two questions (One is just the converse of the other):

1) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you must do more work and have less leisure time during what remains of your lifetime?

2) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you have more leisure time and have to do less work during what remains of your lifetime?

If possible, I'd like you to answer #1 with a YES or NO; answer # 2 with a YES or NO...and add any comments you want to add after doing so.

Also if you truly do not care either way...just state that.

Thanks.
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I'm retired so don't care either way. We have plenty of leisure time as well as time to volunteer, do social stuff, and that. Volunteering fills the need/desire to spend at least some time doing something useful.
 
Right wingers, Left wingers, and Communists are all the same, corporatists, and all of their 'solutions' to all economic and social problems result in mass murders, big prison camps, and slavery, so I could care less about ideology of any stripe, or ideologues either, they're all sociopaths and psychoes and criminally inclined.

Re retirement, it is boring after a couple of months, so most travel, do volunteer work, take up full time hobbies, or in the case of people who had real jobs and thus no way to save money they still go to work every day. I like doing volunteer work, especially Meals On Wheels, little stints with Habitat For Humanity when they have a build near enough, doing repairs for elderly and poor folks. I'm an atheist, but I do a lot with local churches with members doing the same.

Contrary to deviant mythology, the vast majority of churches are not 'megachurches', they're small and have no paid pastors and no rich members, so they do everything by hand themselves, while the 'radicals', right or left, mostly sit around smoking dope and whining about what 'everybody else should do', so they are essentially worthless wastes of air and space, though a very few do show up with gloves and tools once in a while. So, I work around a lot more Christians than any other demographic, white and black and have more respect for them than I do mouths on the innernutz.
 
EdwinA said:
Right wingers, Left wingers, and Communists are all the same, corporatists, and all of their 'solutions' to all economic and social problems result in mass murders, big prison camps, and slavery, so I could care less about ideology of any stripe, or ideologues either, they're all sociopaths and psychoes and criminally inclined.
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The "solution" to most economic problems should be maximizing productivity in some way...or in whatever ways are available. Seeing that everyone has enough for a comfortable life is a different problem...and that does not necessarily, at this time, have to be handled by "earning" one's living...unless the definition of "earning one's living" is expanded to include "staying the hell out of the way of maximizing productivity.


EdwinA said:
Re retirement, it is boring after a couple of months, so most travel, do volunteer work, take up full time hobbies, or in the case of people who had real jobs and thus no way to save money they still go to work every day. I like doing volunteer work, especially Meals On Wheels, little stints with Habitat For Humanity when they have a build near enough, doing repairs for elderly and poor folks. I'm an atheist, but I do a lot with local churches with members doing the same.
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Most people seem to have interpreted "leisure time" to mean...sitting around doing nothing.

That is NOT what leisure time is. Leisure time is time that one gets to choose what one WANTS to do...rather than what one HAS to do. Most leisure time is spend doing more "work" than is spent while "at work." THAT, in fact, is one of the most serious detriments to maximization of productivity.
EdwinA said:
Contrary to deviant mythology, the vast majority of churches are not 'megachurches', they're small and have no paid pastors and no rich members, so they do everything by hand themselves, while the 'radicals', right or left, mostly sit around smoking dope and whining about what 'everybody else should do', so they are essentially worthless wastes of air and space, though a very few do show up with gloves and tools once in a while. So, I work around a lot more Christians than any other demographic, white and black and have more respect for them than I do mouths on the innernutz.
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I volunteered huge amounts of time toward my community, by involving myself in commissions...and by actually doing the work they were created for rather than just compiling a resume. It is a very rewarding experience...even though the "reward" is not money, but satisfaction.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I'm wondering how many people posting here in JPP want more work and less leisure time during what remains of their lifetimes.

So here are the two questions (One is just the converse of the other):

1) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you must do more work and have less leisure time during what remains of your lifetime?

2) Without regard for any supposed need for money, do you wish that things work out so that you have more leisure time and have to do less work during what remains of your lifetime?

If possible, I'd like you to answer #1 with a YES or NO; answer # 2 with a YES or NO...and add any comments you want to add after doing so.

Also if you truly do not care either way...just state that.

Thanks.
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1. No. 2. Yes.

I'm doing that now. Years ago I read a study on American men who worked in a field for 20 year vs. 30. Those who worked for 30 tended to live less long than those who retired after 20. The presumption was that people who worked for 30 had their entire perception of identity wrapped up in their career. When that was gone, they felt they had nothing to live for. Those who only worked for 20 years were still young enough for form a new view of their identity and tended to live 5 or more years longer than those who retired after 30 years.
 
Damocles said:
I want to love my work so that what others would consider my work would really be leisure time to me. I don't want to retire, purpose is important to longevity.
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Agreed "purpose is important to longevity", but that doesn't have to mean being a working schlub until death. Purpose can be volunteering, engaging in creative pursuits, taking classes or anything else on one's personal bucket list.

While my brother couldn't wait to retire and did so at 55 even though he made 3 times what I made, I loved my job but faced mandatory retirement at 65. This was fine with me because, after a point, the grind and stress was becoming more difficult. COVID put the kibosh on that plan and ended up retiring at 64....which was fine with me.

Now I engage mostly in hobbies and gardening. The latter takes some patience since it's based upon different seasons and, often, waiting several months to see results. It gives me something to look forward to seeing.
 
Commander Dutch said:
1. No. 2. Yes.

I'm doing that now. Years ago I read a study on American men who worked in a field for 20 year vs. 30. Those who worked for 30 tended to live less long than those who retired after 20. The presumption was that people who worked for 30 had their entire perception of identity wrapped up in their career. When that was gone, they felt they had nothing to live for. Those who only worked for 20 years were still young enough for form a new view of their identity and tended to live 5 or more years longer than those who retired after 30 years.
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My dad was a planner. He planned his retirement as carefully as he did his working career. He retired at age 60 and lived to age 85 and enjoyed his 25 leisure years immensely.
 
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