WOW! a new low for Carville, and he is already pretty low!

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NOVA said:
"our president lied to us about the absolute certainty of Saddam's stockpiles of WMD's"......Really ??? By mearly repeating what the Democrats were saying for a decade ?

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

Cohan hasn't the president in 1998, but he was a Democrat

“Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

Rockefeller wasn't the president in 2003....but he was a Democrat


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

AlGore wasn't the president in 2002....but he was a Democrat


Yet they ALL say the same thing, many, even before the election in 2000.....how many times do you have to pwned on the same topic before you get it.
Click to expand...

How many times are you going to drag out this list of out-of-date, out-of-context quotes that's been thoroughly examined by Snopes?

"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of statements made by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction.

However, some of the quotes are truncated, and context is provided for none of them — several of these quotes were offered in the course of statements that clearly indicated the speaker was decidedly against unilateral military intervention in Iraq by the U.S. Moreover, several of the quotes offered antedate the four nights of airstrikes unleashed against Iraq by U.S. and British forces during Operation Desert Fox in December 1998..."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
 
NOVA said:
"our president lied to us about the absolute certainty of Saddam's stockpiles of WMD's"......Really ??? By mearly repeating what the Democrats were saying for a decade ?

“I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

Cohan hasn't the president in 1998, but he was a Democrat

“Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

Rockefeller wasn't the president in 2003....but he was a Democrat


"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

AlGore wasn't the president in 2002....but he was a Democrat


Yet they ALL say the same thing, many, even before the election in 2000.....how many times do you have to pwned on the same topic before you get it.
Click to expand...

anyone who stated as FACT that there was absolute certainty about Saddam's supposed stockpiles of WMD's was a liar. I don't care what party they're in. If they stated their OPINION that Saddam had WMD's, that opinion was wrong. Stating as fact an absolute certainty is qualitatively different than stating a personal opinion, however. Opinions are opinions and can be later proven to be wrong or right. LYING about something being a FACT is not the same thing in any way. Words have meanings. If someone says "THERE IS NO DOUBT" about something. That is a factual statement about the absolute certainty of something. If someone says "there is no doubt in my mind", about something, that is an opinion... like "I have no doubt" or "there is little doubt" or a host of other statements that assert opinions and do not state facts.
 
maineman said:
anyone who stated as FACT that there was absolute certainty about Saddam's supposed stockpiles of WMD's was a liar. I don't care what party they're in. If they stated their OPINION that Saddam had WMD's, that opinion was wrong. Stating as fact an absolute certainty is qualitatively different than stating a personal opinion, however. Opinions are opinions and can be later proven to be wrong or right. LYING about something being a FACT is not the same thing in any way. Words have meanings. If someone says "THERE IS NO DOUBT" about something. That is a factual statement about the absolute certainty of something. If someone says "there is no doubt in my mind", about something, that is an opinion... like "I have no doubt" or "there is little doubt" or a host of other statements that assert opinions and do not state facts.
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DODGE! they were war mongering when it was convenient, when it wasn't they bailed.
 
christiefan915 said:
How many times are you going to drag out this list of out-of-date, out-of-context quotes that's been thoroughly examined by Snopes?

"All of the quotes listed above are substantially correct reproductions of statements made by various Democratic leaders regarding Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's acquisition or possession of weapons of mass destruction.

However, some of the quotes are truncated, and context is provided for none of them — several of these quotes were offered in the course of statements that clearly indicated the speaker was decidedly against unilateral military intervention in Iraq by the U.S. Moreover, several of the quotes offered antedate the four nights of airstrikes unleashed against Iraq by U.S. and British forces during Operation Desert Fox in December 1998..."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
Click to expand...


The POINT is not that the speakers were for or against military intervention in Iraq....that is irrelevant.....

THE POINT is that THEY BELIEVED THAT SADDAM HAVE THOSE FUCKIN' WMD....THEY BELIEVED IT, AS MUCH AS BUSH DID.....SO STICK YOU 'LIES' UP YOUR ASS.
 
NOVA said:
The POINT is not that the speakers were for or against military intervention in Iraq....that is irrelevant.....

THE POINT is that THEY BELIEVED THAT SADDAM HAVE THOSE FUCKIN' WMD....THEY BELIEVED IT, AS MUCH AS BUSH DID.....SO STICK YOU 'LIES' UP YOUR ASS.
Click to expand...

Geez, I love being able to reduce you clowns to spouting vulgarity rather than addressing the points made. It's a win for me. :D

Carry on.
 
maineman said:
anyone who stated as FACT that there was absolute certainty about Saddam's supposed stockpiles of WMD's was a liar. I don't care what party they're in. If they stated their OPINION that Saddam had WMD's, that opinion was wrong. Stating as fact an absolute certainty is qualitatively different than stating a personal opinion, however. Opinions are opinions and can be later proven to be wrong or right. LYING about something being a FACT is not the same thing in any way. Words have meanings. If someone says "THERE IS NO DOUBT" about something. That is a factual statement about the absolute certainty of something. If someone says "there is no doubt in my mind", about something, that is an opinion... like "I have no doubt" or "there is little doubt" or a host of other statements that assert opinions and do not state facts.
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Bullshit.....when the local weatherman says it will definitely, without doubt start to rain by 7 am and in fact, the rain doesn't start until 10 am, do you say he
was lying ?.....

No fool....you don't....no sane and intelligent person would make that accusation.....but they would
rightly say, 'the weatherman was mistaken, he was wrong".....thats what a normal person would say.....
AND WHY didn't the weatherman lie ? Because he believed in what he said and what he claimed....therefore, he didn't lie....he just made a mistake....

On doesn't 'state a fact with absolute certainly"....thats redundant .... a fact means its certain....
Stating what you believe, claiming "absolute certainly" is nothing but a show of how sure you think that you're claiming is true....it has nothing to do with FACT, and
everything to do with faith....faith in your beliefs.

The only fact your prooving that you are a fuckin' unreasonable partisan fool....lacking an understanding of the nuances in the English language, narrow-minded to the extreme, a clone of desh.....a disgrace to the ethics and values and implied intelligence represented by the uniform you wore.

THAT is my conjecture, based on the content of the posts you've given us over the last decade or more....as you were, mate.
 
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NOVA said:
Bullshit.....when the local weatherman says it will definitely, without doubt start to rain by 7 am and in fact, the rain doesn't start until 10 am, do you say he
was lying ?.....

No fool....you don't....no sane and intelligent person would make that accusation.....but they would
rightly say, 'the weatherman was mistaken, he was wrong".....thats what a normal person would say.....

The only fact your prooving that you are a fuckin' unreasonable partisan fool....narrow-minded to the extreme, a clone of desh.....a disgrace to the ethics and values
and implied intelligence represented by the uniform you wore.
THAT is my conjecture, based on the content of the posts you've given us over the last decade or more....as you were, mate.
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The Downing Street Memo 2002



There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.


It was the only reason they could agree on and one the public would embrace.
 
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christiefan915 said:
Geez, I love being able to reduce you clowns to spouting vulgarity rather than addressing the points made. It's a win for me. :D

Carry on.
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Exactly what point did I overlook.....?.....I made my point very clear....

So again.....THE POINT is that THEY BELIEVED THAT SADDAM HAVE THOSE WMD....THEY BELIEVED IT, AS MUCH AS BUSH DID.

Is that clearer ?


Here....http://tinyurl.com/d4l9j

read 'em for yourself and you'll clearly see exactly which ones were claiming what and which wanted to do something about Saddam....threateneing him...
 
Rana said:
The Downing Street Memo 2002



There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.


It was the only reaon they could agree on and one the public would embrace.
Click to expand...


What does that have to do with the quotes from those Democrats being discussed and what the Democrats were claiming, claiming with 'certainty'........?
Let me tell you, the answer is 'nothing'.....

Do try to keep up sweetie...
 
NOVA said:
Exactly what point did I overlook.....?.....I made my point very clear....

So again.....THE POINT is that THEY BELIEVED THAT SADDAM HAVE THOSE WMD....THEY BELIEVED IT, AS MUCH AS BUSH DID.

Is that clearer ?


Here....http://tinyurl.com/d4l9j

read 'em for yourself and you'll clearly see exactly which ones were claiming what and which wanted to do something about Saddam....threateneing him...
Click to expand...

Uh Popeye... those are the same quotes in the Snopes link I posted. And the Snopes link adds context.
 
christiefan915 said:
Uh Popeye... those are the same quotes in the Snopes link I posted. And the Snopes link adds context.
Click to expand...


And what 'context' changes the fact that they claimed Saddam possessed wmd ?.....none....absolutely none.....

That is the point of my posting those quotes, to show what they believed about Saddams wmd .......nothing more, nothing less.....

anything other than that is totally irrelevant....lets stick with the topic, not with what they thought should be done about the wmd....though that
is very clear in many of the quotes, in context.
 
NOVA said:
Exactly what point did I overlook.....?.....I made my point very clear....

So again.....THE POINT is that THEY BELIEVED THAT SADDAM HAVE THOSE WMD....THEY BELIEVED IT, AS MUCH AS BUSH DID.

Is that clearer ?


Here....http://tinyurl.com/d4l9j

read 'em for yourself and you'll clearly see exactly which ones were claiming what and which wanted to do something about Saddam....threateneing him...
Click to expand...

"believing" that Saddam had WMD's is different that saying that there was an absolute certainty that he did. An absolute certainty of WMD's (lie) conflated with the "AQ and Saddam were in cahoots together before 9/11 and Saddam, therefore would willingly give some of his huge stockpile to AQ to use against us" (another lie) was what convinced American sheeple that Dubya really oughta invade them there Iraqis RIGHT GODDAMN NOW. Bush misled us into war and there is nothing you can do that can spin it any other way than that.
 
NOVA said:
What does that have to do with the quotes from those Democrats being discussed and what the Democrats were claiming, claiming with 'certainty'........?
Let me tell you, the answer is 'nothing'.....

Do try to keep up sweetie...
Click to expand...

It has everything to do with it. They cooked the intel to fit their agenda, it doesn't matter what was said before by the Democrats, Bush's neocons knew the truth and lied us into war.
 
christiefan915 said:
Uh Popeye... those are the same quotes in the Snopes link I posted. And the Snopes link adds context.
Click to expand...

He reuses those quotes, even though he has been shown many times before they aren't in context and have nothing to do with what was going on in 2002 and the lead up to the war.

You can't teach the old salty dawg the truth, he clings to his lies to sustain his dissonance.
 
NOVA said:
And what 'context' changes the fact that they claimed Saddam possessed wmd ?.....none....absolutely none.....

That is the point of my posting those quotes, to show what they believed about Saddams wmd .......nothing more, nothing less.....

anything other than that is totally irrelevant....lets stick with the topic, not with what they thought should be done about the wmd....though that
is very clear in many of the quotes, in context.
Click to expand...

They may have believed it and clearly you do, too. So why don't you also believe Hussein Kamel when he said that all weapons were destroyed back in the 1990s?

I've been posting this document on forums for over ten years and not one rightie ever acknowledges it, why is that? Because it's evidence against what the government was doing to drum up support for the war?

Let's not forget the man was killed by Saddam for giving up this info to the inspectors.

http://www.fair.org/press-releasesOLD/kamel.pdf
 
christiefan915 said:
They may have believed it and clearly you do, too. So why don't you also believe Hussein Kamel when he said that all weapons were destroyed back in the 1990s?

I've been posting this document on forums for over ten years and not one rightie ever acknowledges it, why is that? Because it's evidence against what the government was doing to drum up support for the war?

Let's not forget the man was killed by Saddam for giving up this info to the inspectors.

http://www.fair.org/press-releasesOLD/kamel.pdf
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Its dated Aug. 1995......clearly the quotes I posted by prominent Democrats (and others I didn't post,) were all quotes from 1996 thru 2003....

So why ask me about not believing Kamel....does it sound to you like the "prominent" Democrats in question, including Bill Clinton, believed Kamel....

Clinton and his entire administration should have known about the document you present....why did they see fit lie about the wmd for the next 6 or 7 years.....?

So if you think its evidence of something, try asking why those quotes were ever uttered in spite of it...by Democrats....
obviously, no one believed Kamel's claims or all those Democrats were liars and kept lying even in 2003.....

Knowing you are claiming something is true, that is untrue, is a lie.....NOT knowing, is just being wrong.
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And what it comes down to is, your Kamel claim is irrelevant to the discussion.....the discussion remains did those quotes from Democrats I posted
prove that they believed Saddam possessed wmd or were they lying the entire country since Clinton was president ?

....its undeniable that that is what they said, that is what they claimed, and there is no ambiguity in those quotes...
 
NOVA said:
Its dated Aug. 1995......clearly the quotes I posted by prominent Democrats (and others I didn't post,) were all quotes from 1996 thru 2003....

So why ask me about not believing Kamel....does it sound to you like the "prominent" Democrats in question, including Bill Clinton, believed Kamel....

Clinton and his entire administration should have known about the document you present....why did they see fit lie about the wmd for the next 6 or 7 years.....?

So if you think its evidence of something, try asking why those quotes were ever uttered in spite of it...by Democrats....
obviously, no one believed Kamel's claims or all those Democrats were liars and kept lying even in 2003.....

Knowing you are claiming something is true, that is untrue, is a lie.....NOT knowing, is just being wrong.
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And what it comes down to is, your Kamel claim is irrelevant to the discussion.....the discussion remains did those quotes from Democrats I posted
prove that they believed Saddam possessed wmd or were they lying the entire country since Clinton was president ?

....its undeniable that that is what they said, that is what they claimed, and there is no ambiguity in those quotes...
Click to expand...

Charles A. Duelfer, whom the Bush administration chose to complete the U.S. investigation of Iraq's weapons programs, said Hussein's ability to produce nuclear weapons had "progressively decayed" since 1991. Inspectors, he said, found no evidence of "concerted efforts to restart the program."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12115-2004Oct6.html
 
Rana said:
It has everything to do with it. They cooked the intel to fit their agenda, it doesn't matter what was said before by the Democrats, Bush's neocons knew the truth and lied us into war.
Click to expand...


Bush knew Saddam didn't have wmd, but the Democrats firmly believed he did ?....is that really your contention ?.... Take your meds honey...
That insanity isn't worth arguing over....
 
Rana said:
He reuses those quotes, even though he has been shown many times before they aren't in context and have nothing to do with what was going on in 2002 and the lead up to the war.

You can't teach the old salty dawg the truth, he clings to his lies to sustain his dissonance.
Click to expand...


I post those quotes to PROVE, beyond a shadow or a doubt, that Bush's claims about Saddam having wmd were EXACTLY the same claims
that the Democrats were making for almost a decade......including Bill Clinton and Al Gore
 
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