Why Trump's Legal team will not even be able to assert his main defense.

[QP!]

Juries make assumptions all the time. That's why I asked if you have ever actually been in a jury. I have been on 3 and one of those federal.

It's not heresy for the attorneys to remind the jury what the PRA allows. That's a fact.

Juries make assumptions about what is presented.

If at no time Trump of his lawyers introduce anything regarding his beliefs or intent, and the entire argument then is around the technical reading of the law, and which reading is the correct one, you are not going to suddenly have a juror say 'Ok I get that Trump technical reading was wrong but what if he believed other things', and those 'other things' are stuff that has never been said or suggested by Trump or anyone.

 

[QP!]

Not true they can make the argument that because the documents were taken to Mar A Lago the President thought they belonged to him.

You guys can make up law all you want and you will have as much luck in court as the Kraken lawyer did.


NO, they CANNOT make that argument up for Trump, if Trump does not get up on the stand and say that is what he believed.

Imagine a world where any lawyer could tell a jury what was in a clients mind, and then after the trial the person himself said 'that is not what i believed. He mistated my beliefs'.

That is why no one else can introduce your thoughts into the record first. Trump MUST present them on the stand, and then, and only then, can his lawyers run with them.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

The very fact they were taken to Mar A Lago means the President deemed them to be declassified because he deemed them to be his personal Presidential documents.

The PRA doesn't make a document personal simply because it is declassified. In fact the PRA makes it clear that such a document would not be a personal document since an official act of the President was required to declassify it. The act of declassifying it make it not a personal document but instead would be a Presidential document.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

There is no document that shows it was ever top military secret. Trump may have just been lying again. You know number 30,001 according to you libratards.

The recent lawyers that walked out on Donnie for lying to them, and not telling them everything, has already admitted they tried to tell the FBI that Donnie was lying about the Classified Information after revealing it to someone, and that was a no go!

As the people that Donnie Showed the information to, has already agreed to testify, and Donnie is already in trouble for trying to bribe them to keep their mouths shut.

So the case against Donnie is already an Open and SHUT case!

An open-and-shut case is so obvious that it doesn't take long to wrap it up and move on to the next one.

 

[Earl]

It should be thrown out after briefs are filed. The PRA is very broad all papers that the President claims are his personal papers belong to him. There are no exceptions even military secrets.

Summary judgement for the defendant.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

The issue is TRUMP must be the one to assert once in court. HIs lawyers cannot speak to what he believed if Trump does not get on the stand and say what he believed.



Also it has NOT been argued in court and the DOJ and judge did not decide in favor of the POTUS. You have yet another misreading and misunderstanding of law in your head.

You really should do a bit of research so you don’t look stupid all the time

https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...-act-clintons-sock-drawer-defense-2023-06-09/

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

What did he show and to whom

The Indictment does not include that information, but his lawyers will see it as discovery, in Pre-Trial Motions- The Motion Of Discovery!

Discovery will reveal the Who, What, Where, When- AND HOW- AND MAYBE EVEN THE WHY?

 

[Earl]

The recent lawyers that walked out on Donnie for lying to them, and not telling them everything, has already admitted they tried to tell the FBI that Donnie was lying about the Classified Information after revealing it to someone, and that was a no go!

As the people that Donnie Showed the information to, has already agreed to testify, and Donnie is already in trouble for trying to bribe them to keep their mouths shut.

So the case against Donnie is already an Open and SHUT case!

An open-and-shut case is so obvious that it doesn't take long to wrap it up and move on to the next one.

Link to prove that Trump tried to bribe his lawyers, Gecko.

Or it's a lie.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

The Indictment does not include that information, but his lawyers will see it as discovery, in Pre-Trial!

And why didn’t they charge him with that also if it happened then?

It means he didn’t show them to anybody and there is zero evidence he did

Just more lie’s from the left

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Doesn’t matter if they are classified or not, Trump still has a right to them as long as the archives also has them

The only way to get Trump here is to prove he used these documents for some nefarious purposes which the DOJ cannot do

You are right. The indictment of Trump doesn't rely on the classification level of the documents. It only requires that the documents contain information that could harm the US.
It is a violation of the law to retain the documents and not return them to an officer of the US when requested. Read the law before you make such silly arguments. Every court in the land will rely on the law and not your bastardization of what you think it means.
18 793(e)

(e) Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or

Trump has 2 possible defenses for that law.
1. He can claim he was authorized to have possession. This is contradicted by his being informed by NARA that he should not have them, by his returning some documents, and by a subpoena requesting them which he didn't turn them over.
2. He can claim he didn't know the documents contained information detrimental to the US. That is a hard one to defend since the documents clearly had classified markings and Trump himself is on tape saying he can't show documents that are classified.

Both of those defenses will likely require Trump to testify.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

I didnt say every record is a presidential record. Try again

The PRA clearly shows that any document that is classified and shown to Trump while classified would be a Presidential record and in no way could be a personal record.
You are arguing that classified records can be personal records. That is nonsense since it would mean that classified information on Hillary's server could be personal.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

THERE IS NO DOCUMENT TO PROVE THE PROSECUTIONS CASE.

Since there is no document, all we have are Trump's words. Trump's words will be taken as truthful unless someone testifies he was not truthful.
Your argument is that the defense is going to tell the jury:
"You can't believe anything my client says. He lies all the time so you should find him innocent."

 

[Yakuda]

Juries make assumptions about what is presented.

If at no time Trump of his lawyers introduce anything regarding his beliefs or intent, and the entire argument then is around the technical reading of the law, and which reading is the correct one, you are not going to suddenly have a juror say 'Ok I get that Trump technical reading was wrong but what if he believed other things', and those 'other things' are stuff that has never been said or suggested by Trump or anyone.

You've never been on a jury that's clear.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

The PRA clearly shows that any document that is classified and shown to Trump while classified would be a Presidential record and in no way could be a personal record.
You are arguing that classified records can be personal records. That is nonsense since it would mean that classified information on Hillary's server could be personal.

And Hillary wasn’t convicted was she?

 

[Yakuda]

The PRA clearly shows that any document that is classified and shown to Trump while classified would be a Presidential record and in no way could be a personal record.
You are arguing that classified records can be personal records. That is nonsense since it would mean that classified information on Hillary's server could be personal.

Right she just destroyed classified information so no harm no foul right?

 

[ExpressLane]

You guys can make up law all you want and you will have as much luck in court as the Kraken lawyer did.


NO, they CANNOT make that argument up for Trump, if Trump does not get up on the stand and say that is what he believed.

Imagine a world where any lawyer could tell a jury what was in a clients mind, and then after the trial the person himself said 'that is not what i believed. He mistated my beliefs'.

That is why no one else can introduce your thoughts into the record first. Trump MUST present them on the stand, and then, and only then, can his lawyers run with them.

What about this do you not understand? The President is the Executive branch. He alone gets to decide which documents are destroyed which are retained as Classified and which are his personal documents. There is no document used by the executive branch that he does not have total control of. He is the ONLY person in our government that can classify or declassify any document.
Judge Amy Berman Jackson agreed: “Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office,” she held, “it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records.”

Judge Jackson added that “the PRA contains no provision obligating or even permitting the Archivist to assume control over records that the President ‘categorized’ and ‘filed separately’ as personal records. At the conclusion of the President’s term, the Archivist only ‘assumes responsibility for the Presidential records.’ . . . PRA does not confer any mandatory or even discretionary authority on the Archivist to classify records. Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the President.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/clinto...ictment-documents-pra-personal-files-13986b28
When the President set the records aside to take to Mar A Lago they became his personal Presidential records whether you like it or not. A FEDERAL court has already ruled on the issue. BTW Judge Jackson is an Obama appointed judge.

 

[Earl]

Right she just destroyed classified information so no harm no foul right?

She just destroyed classified information...after a subpoena...obstruction of justice.

Equal Protection refers to the idea that a governmental body may not deny people equal protection of its governing laws. The governing body state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances.

We shall see if Trump gets equal treatment under the law.

 

[Yakuda]

She just destroyed classified information...after a subpoena...obstruction of justice.

But it's ok she has a D after her name. Imagine how the leftist sycophants would have reacted had that been trump.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

And why didn’t they charge him with that also if it happened then?

It means he didn’t show them to anybody and there is zero evidence he did

Just more lie’s from the left

You need to read the Indictment!

I do not speak for the indictment- it speaks for itself.

But, you do need to read it, if you are ever going to know the charges- and the scope of severity they present, the United States has on Donald Trump!

The left has nothing to do with prosecuting Donald Trump.

This is a legal matter between The United States Government which represents The People Vs. Donald Trump- Not Trump Vs. the Democrats!

The Justice Department has to investigate, Indict, and Prosecute Criminals and their Crimes, or they would be in violation of their Oath of Office.

So your accusation- that it is just more lies from the left, is about as effective or relevant, as a fart through a screen door, at this point!

 

[Phantasmal]

You really should do a bit of research so you don’t look stupid all the time

https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...-act-clintons-sock-drawer-defense-2023-06-09/

Did you read the article, it does not say what you’re claiming.

That theory is vigorously disputed by national security experts, including former National Archives litigation director Jason Baron, who is now a professor at the University of Maryland, and Bradley Moss of the Mark S. Zaid law firm.
Both Baron and Moss told me by email that there are clear distinctions between the audiotapes at issue in the Clinton case and the classified records in the Trump criminal case.
The Clinton tapes, Baron said, “were in the nature of a diary or journal in recorded form,” fitting the definition of a personal record in the Presidential Records Act. But the documents with classified markings that were seized from Mar-a-Lago, Baron said, “were official government records that should never have been transferred out of the government's hands.”
Moreover, Moss said, the question of whether the documents were personal or presidential records is beside the point in a case involving the Espionage Act, like the one against Trump.
“Whether as a presidential record or a personal record, the records at issue in this indictment still have classification markings and contain information relating to the national defense,” he said.