Why Trump's Legal team will not even be able to assert his main defense.

QP! said:
WRONG in two ways.


While the way the law is written matters and that is Trumps worst defense, what Trump has been arguing is an 'intent' defense. Intent defenses are pinned on what you BELIEVE, and not necessarily what the law strictly says.

It is entirely possible in most white collar crimes, to break the law in a factual and provable way but to not be guilty if you did not have any intent to do so or the prosecutor cannot prove intent.

Trump's lawyers cannot introduce any elements of an 'intent defense' if Trump does not take the stand.


And it will be a very short trial if they are choosing to not introduce any 'intent' defense and they want to pin the entire case on a 'technical reading' of the law as you will not even find a Trump lawyer currently who is arguing Trump is correct on the technical reading of the law. All of them speaking on tv speak to his belief and intent as they know the technical reading does not apply.
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He hasn’t put forth a defense until he is in court

And as I said this has already been argued in court by the DOJ and the judge decided in favor of the president
 
When a former Commander In Chief, recklessly and carelessly, shows TOP MILITARY SECRETS to people, who absolutely, has no Governmental clearance, there is no forseeable or viable defense. As Executive Privilege does not apply, and the terms Classified or De-classified will not matter or apply in this case ether. Donnie hasn't a leg to stand on!

This will be established in Pre-Trial!

And more than likely, Trump'a Attorneys will be asking for a plea deal to prevent Donnie from going to jail!
 
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QP! said:
NO they cannot in a Court of law just have 'every reasonable person' in the jury make their own assumptions what Trump believed.

No they cannot allow Trumps own lawyers to present what he believed as a reasonable person.

Trump has to present his beliefs and tell them 'this is what i believed' for that to be an item for them to consider.

Hearsay and assumptions do not get presented in court.
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Not true they can make the argument that because the documents were taken to Mar A Lago the President thought they belonged to him.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
When a former Commander In Chief, recklessly and carelessly, shows TOP SECRET MILITARY SECRETS to people, who absolutely, has no Governmental clearance, there is no forseeable or viable defense.

This will be established in the Pre-Trial!

And more than likely, Trump'a Attorneys will be asking for a plea deal.
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What did he show and to whom
 
QP! said:
NO they cannot in a Court of law just have 'every reasonable person' in the jury make their own assumptions what Trump believed.

No they cannot allow Trumps own lawyers to present what he believed as a reasonable person.

Trump has to present his beliefs and tell them 'this is what i believed' for that to be an item for them to consider.

Hearsay and assumptions do not get presented in court.
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Juries make assumptions all the time. That's why I asked if you have ever actually been in a jury. I have been on 3 and one of those federal.

It's not heresy for the attorneys to remind the jury what the PRA allows. That's a fact.
 
Yakuda said:
The PRA does say the president decides what's a private record and what's a presidential record. A reasonable person can assume then that trump believed he could decide that.

BTW have you ever sat on a jury in an actual case?
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Someone has to testify that Trump thought it was a personal record.
Of course, the real problem is that the PRA doesn't say every document that the President touches is a personal record. The PRA says the following which any reasonable juror can read for themselves and understand.

§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.
d.
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It's rather hard to argue that a classified document has no relation to the President's statutory duties.
It will be even harder to argue that Trump thought they were personal if anyone testifies they told him classified documents are not personal documents.

Let's imagine the prosecutor provides the definitions in the PRA to the jurors and then 3 different people testify they told Trump or people in the WH that classified documents are not personal documents. At that point we have actual testimony vs no testimony. I know what I would do as a juror. What would you do?
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
When a former Commander In Chief, recklessly and carelessly, shows TOP SECRET MILITARY SECRETS to people, who absolutely, has no Governmental clearance, there is no forseeable or viable defense.

This will be established in the Pre-Trial!

And more than likely, Trump'a Attorneys will be asking for a plea deal.
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There is no document that shows it was ever top military secret. Trump may have just been lying again. You know number 30,001 according to you libratards.
 
Yakuda said:
Youre addicted to trump porn which exacerbates your TDS. Your kind starts 100 posts a day here about trump. Porn addiction on the level that you people exhibit it is really bad on the brain.
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I just love watching you guys cry. And the tears are very predictable due to your TDS.

For 8+ years you same guys engage in chants of 'Lock him/her up' for any opponent of Trumps. To you that is perfectly normal and if the left complains and points out how stupid those chants are as the person(s) have not done anything illegal, too bad.


Now Trump has done actual illegal things and you guys are super sensitive and tear filled over 'lock him up chants'.

it is hilarious what delicate snowflakes you are, and i enjoy every minute of it.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
Someone has to testify that Trump thought it was a personal record.
Of course, the real problem is that the PRA doesn't say every document that the President touches is a personal record. The PRA says the following which any reasonable juror can read for themselves and understand.



It's rather hard to argue that a classified document has no relation to the President's statutory duties.
It will be even harder to argue that Trump thought they were personal if anyone testifies they told him classified documents are not personal documents.

Let's imagine the prosecutor provides the definitions in the PRA to the jurors and then 3 different people testify they told Trump or people in the WH that classified documents are not personal documents. At that point we have actual testimony vs no testimony. I know what I would do as a juror. What would you do?
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I didnt say every record is a presidential record. Try again
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Doesn’t matter if they are classified or not, Trump still has a right to them as long as the archives also has them

The only way to get Trump here is to prove he used these documents for some nefarious purposes which the DOJ cannot do
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Lets hope that is the Trump lawyers argument and they are as dumb as you are as no one, and i mean NO ONE, who is a lawyer and credible agrees with your misreading of the law in that way.


The Archives has to be given back physical possession of all governmental records as soon as a POTUS term ends. The archives, can work with an Ex POTUS to create a SCIF for the ex POTUS to still access them, but that procedure has to be done, for the ex POTUS to have any access to them.

You are simply factually wrong but by god i hope Trump is dumb enough to demand his lawyers go with that defense and he finds a lawyer dumb enough to say it. I suggest Christina Bobb as his best candidate.
 
QP! said:
I just love watching you guys cry. And the tears are very predictable due to your TDS.

For 8+ years you same guys engage in chants of 'Lock him/her up' for any opponent of Trumps. To you that is perfectly normal and if the left complains and points out how stupid those chants are as the person(s) have not done anything illegal, too bad.


Now Trump has done actual illegal things and you guys are super sensitive and tear filled over 'lock him up chants'.

it is hilarious what delicate snowflakes you are, and i enjoy every minute of it.
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The best part will be when all of this comes to nothing and once again you will have only reinforced the notion that you people are incompetent idiots. This is why its trump porn because just like real porn you're never going to have it. LMBO. You better shoot your load before you're disappointed AGAIN.
 
ExpressLane said:
There is no document that shows it was ever top military secret. Trump may have just been lying again. You know number 30,001 according to you libratards.
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The defense is going to tell the jury:
"You can't believe anything my client says. He lies all the time so you should find him innocent."

Oh, yeah. That should work!!!
 
Tinkerpeach said:
He hasn’t put forth a defense until he is in court

And as I said this has already been argued in court by the DOJ and the judge decided in favor of the president
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The issue is TRUMP must be the one to assert once in court. HIs lawyers cannot speak to what he believed if Trump does not get on the stand and say what he believed.



Also it has NOT been argued in court and the DOJ and judge did not decide in favor of the POTUS. You have yet another misreading and misunderstanding of law in your head.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
When a former Commander In Chief, recklessly and carelessly, shows TOP MILITARY SECRETS to people, who absolutely, has no Governmental clearance, there is no forseeable or viable defense. As Executive Privilege does not apply, and the terms Classified or De-classified will not matter or apply in this case ether. Donnie hasn't a leg to stand on!

This will be established in Pre-Trial!

And more than likely, Trump'a Attorneys will be asking for a plea deal to prevent Donnie from going to jail!
Click to expand...

As a betting man i see no chance Trump would allow his lawyers to accept any plea deal that made him accept guilt. He will go down fighting hoping for a mistrial via a Trumpderp juror nullifying the jury or the 2024 elections stopping the case,and him believing he will win and be POTUS and thus able to end it.

But you are correct, that most of these defenses Trumps team will try and present will not be allowed, in the court. This judge might try to allow them but DOJ will instantly appeal up and the 11th Circuit will disallow them and remove Judge Cannon at that time.
 
ExpressLane said:
It should be thrown out after briefs are filed. The PRA is very broad all papers that the President claims are his personal papers belong to him. There are no exceptions even military secrets.
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Briefs? What briefs? Briefs aren't filed in a criminal trial.
§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.
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The definitions in the PRA are not as broad as you portray them. They are actually quite narrow.
 
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