Why the Republican War on Workers Rights Undermines the American Economy

[Cancel 2016.2]

Not Wrong. It was Walker's inititive and he signed it. No one said the legislature didn't pass it.

Learn to read, his biased article made it sound like the Supreme court let Walker do it on his own. It was duly passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. It's called democracy. Look it up.

Right. Each individual state worker has to appeal to the taxpayers. That should be effective.

Nice straw man.... too bad it is not reality. The unions can put forth proposals that the tax payers can vote on. The unions would do so for their respective members COLLECTIVELY. Your comment is nothing short of absurdity.

Retaliation by companies is hardly a new phenomonon.

Good parrot, you spit out the union mantra quite well. But the above doesn't address my point in the least. If the average time from notice to the vote is 57 days, that is hardly unreasonable. To put it to three weeks is an attempt by the unions to have things shift dramatically in their favor.

They have lost the right of collective bargaining.

WRONG.... they have lost the right to bargain SOME of their wage/benefits with the STATE. They STILL have the right to bargain via the tax payers. What they have lost is the ability to bribe politicians directly for raises and increases to benefits.

Your entire post,neigh presence on this site makes you nothing more than a capitalist shill.

Shill???? LMAO.... I most certainly favor capitalism over any other economic system. It beats the hell out of socialism and communism. The other two are not even close to being as beneficial as capitalism.

To spur economic growth the middle class needs spending money.

Thanks again polly. Go get your cracker from your masters. Then have them explain to you HOW the middle class can get money.

Don't be a fool.

So you aren't going to provide us with ANY details on what it is workers today cannot afford that they could afford 20 years ago?

Let me guess, we have fewer TV's, phones, computers per household today because they are unaffordable? No? Perhaps it is fewer auto's per family? Fewer homes? Less trips to the movies?

Surely you can provide us with some details.

No they are not. We have entered a new gilded age, unions are needed as much now as ever.

LMAO... what do we need the unions for? Do you feel worker protection laws are no longer sufficient? Child labor laws not good enough? What is it that you feel we need unions for? Try elaborating on your positions, it will help us to actually have a discussion.

Right, like an education for their children.

LMAO.... really? While the university systems have certainly become far too expensive for their worth, tell us... WHO tends to run public universities? Do you think the academic 'elite' tend to be more liberal or conservative in general?

That said, it was the mentality of people who think they have to have every new technology, a new car every few years, a bigger home than they can afford etc... THOSE are the people amassing large amounts of debt.

No question. Yet in spite of an admittedly high top tox rate, great fortunes were made.

and even greater fortunes were made when tax rates were lowered. Your point?

Never mind the bullshit what ifs. How do you explain Germany's strong economy, despite paying a living wage? Why is that not possible here? Nevermind, I know why. Greed.

LMAO.... define 'living wage'..... it is a term so many on the left love to use, though I have yet to see any of them define it. It is THAT mentality that kills us.

As for Germany:

1) They are an exporting machine... and their vehicles are very popular in high growth areas like China and India
2) They have a government that has been willing to cut waste from the government, we do not
3) Their wages have been more stagnant over the past 10-12 years, which has made them more cost competitive.

 

[Rune]

Learn to read, his biased article made it sound like the Supreme court let Walker do it on his own. It was duly passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. It's called democracy. Look it up.

No need, heard of it before. We all have, no point in talking down, except to elevate yourself as an expert.


Nice straw man.... too bad it is not reality. The unions can put forth proposals that the tax payers can vote on. The unions would do so for their respective members COLLECTIVELY. Your comment is nothing short of absurdity.




Good parrot, you spit out the union mantra quite well. But the above doesn't address my point in the least. If the average time from notice to the vote is 57 days, that is hardly unreasonable. To put it to three weeks is an attempt by the unions to have things shift dramatically in their favor.

Thankyou, I did well on rote lessons. Unions need all the help they can get these days.


WRONG.... they have lost the right to bargain SOME of their wage/benefits with the STATE. They STILL have the right to bargain via the tax payers. What they have lost is the ability to bribe politicians directly for raises and increases to benefits.

Let's see;

The announcement came a day after the state Supreme Court ruled that a lower court judge overstepped her authority when she voided the governor's polarizing plan to prohibit workers from collectively bargaining over anything except base pay increases no greater than inflation. Local police, firefighters and state patrol are exempt.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-03-09-19-45-22

Shill???? LMAO.... I most certainly favor capitalism over any other economic system. It beats the hell out of socialism and communism. The other two are not even close to being as beneficial as capitalism.

Did I say capitalism? What was that about reading comprehension?


Thanks again polly. Go get your cracker from your masters. Then have them explain to you HOW the middle class can get money.







So you aren't going to provide us with ANY details on what it is workers today cannot afford that they could afford 20 years ago?

Do you have to be patronising? Yes, I guess you do, as it is part of your expert mantle. Let's see; 1 of 9 homes are in forclosure, so I guess shelter,
1 in 7 americans on foodstamps http://www.newsmax.com/US/americans-food-stamps-economy/2011/02/03/id/384882, unless you are a child, in wich case your odds of being on food stamps is much higher so food, clothes, I don't know, you figure that one out. You are so talking out your ass here, it is just disturbing.

Let me guess, we have fewer TV's, phones, computers per household today because they are unaffordable? No? Perhaps it is fewer auto's per family? Fewer homes? Less trips to the movies?

Surely you can provide us with some details.





LMAO... what do we need the unions for? Do you feel worker protection laws are no longer sufficient? Child labor laws not good enough? What is it that you feel we need unions for? Try elaborating on your positions, it will help us to actually have a discussion.

We need unions to bargain for wages and benefits. When we had more union workers, the nonunion workers were paid more as well. Union membership is at an a modern time low, so are wages. Don't act the fool. It is not becoming of you.


LMAO.... really? While the university systems have certainly become far too expensive for their worth, tell us... WHO tends to run public universities? Do you think the academic 'elite' tend to be more liberal or conservative in general?

That said, it was the mentality of people who think they have to have every new technology, a new car every few years, a bigger home than they can afford etc... THOSE are the people amassing large amounts of debt.

From a bankers perspective, I am sure you believe that. Why don't you back up that statement with some facts instead of bluster.



and even greater fortunes were made when tax rates were lowered. Your point?

Simple, Simplefreak. Profits were made in spite of fair wages and high taxes. Profits would still be made today in spite of fair wages and low taxes, but the super-greedy want more, so much so as to kill the golden goose.
My point was obvious.




LMAO.... define 'living wage'..... it is a term so many on the left love to use, though I have yet to see any of them define it. It is THAT mentality that kills us.
More "claiming the expert bullshit, no explaination needed. Again, don't play the fool, it doesn't suit you.
As for Germany:

1) They are an exporting machine... and their vehicles are very popular in high growth areas like China and India

So are we, as are our vehicles.
2) They have a government that has been willing to cut waste from the government, we do not

Who have been the spendthrifts? I know, you disagreed with BushII. So, you voted for Obama?
3) Their wages have been more stagnant over the past 10-12 years, which has made them more cost competitive.

That doesn't seem to be the case, care to offer any proof? I have a theory; I used to buy american made tools, they were the best available. Unfortunately, the companies I used to buy from now have their tools made in China, and I don't buy them anymore. I now buy many tools from Germany. Perhaps I am not alone?

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

"Ideally, you'd have every plant you own on a barge to move with currencies and changes in the economy."

Thus quoth former CEO Jack Welch, beloved of GOP corporation-worshipers.

Multi-nationals have no national loyalty.


They have no patriotism.


Buy low, sell high.


They will use slave labor, and when the US is a Third World nation (like Britain today) they will sell their wares to the Indian and Chinese consumers who are replacing us.

 

[NOVA]

That doesn't seem to be the case, care to offer any proof? I have a theory; I used to buy american made tools, they were the best available. Unfortunately, the companies I used to buy from now have their tools made in China, and I don't buy them anymore. I now buy many tools from Germany. Perhaps I am not alone?

At least that is a reasonable reason to imagine why Germanys economy is growing ..... they are selling more goods.....its obviously not growing because of wages being 30% higher....

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

At least that is a reasonable reason to imagine why Germanys economy is growing ..... they are selling more goods.....its obviously not growing because of wages being 30% higher....

Jesus, you're dumb, Blabo.




Read, and learn.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

First, learn to use the quote boxes or put your entire response AFTER the quote box that appears. Putting your responses in as you are means others have to cut and paste every response from your mess

The announcement came a day after the state Supreme Court ruled that a lower court judge overstepped her authority when she voided the governor's polarizing plan to prohibit workers from collectively bargaining over anything except base pay increases no greater than inflation. Local police, firefighters and state patrol are exempt.

WRONG.... they have lost the right to bargain SOME of their wage/benefits with the STATE. They STILL have the right to bargain via the tax payers. What they have lost is the ability to bribe politicians directly for raises and increases to benefits.

Did I say capitalism? What was that about reading comprehension?

Yes, you did indeed say capitalism. I was saying that you have a very hard time with reading comprehension.... and apparently that problem even includes comprehending your own posts.

Do you have to be patronising? Yes, I guess you do, as it is part of your expert mantle. Let's see; 1 of 9 homes are in forclosure, so I guess shelter,
1 in 7 americans on foodstamps http://www.newsmax.com/US/americans-...2/03/id/384882, unless you are a child, in wich case your odds of being on food stamps is much higher so food, clothes, I don't know, you figure that one out. You are so talking out your ass here, it is just disturbing.

It is not patronizing to ask you to provide clarification.

All of those cases above are due to the current RECESSION and subsequent recovery period or lack thereof. That lack of recovery is at the feet of President Obama and the Dem led Congress from 2009-2010 and now the Split Congress as of 2011.

Tell us.... were people in 2007 better off than the people in 1980 in terms of affording the things you mentioned?

We need unions to bargain for wages and benefits. When we had more union workers, the nonunion workers were paid more as well. Union membership is at an a modern time low, so are wages. Don't act the fool. It is not becoming of you.

We most certainly do NOT need unions to bargain for wages and benefits. Every individual is capable of doing so on their own and the companies can choose to award their employees based on MERIT.

From a bankers perspective, I am sure you believe that. Why don't you back up that statement with some facts instead of bluster.

which part? That universities tend to be run by more liberals than conservatives? Or that many people outspend their income because they have to have the new toys/tech/bigger home/newer car etc...????

Simple, Simplefreak. Profits were made in spite of fair wages and high taxes. Profits would still be made today in spite of fair wages and low taxes, but the super-greedy want more, so much so as to kill the golden goose.
My point was obvious.

No, your point is moronic. Yes, profits are made. But your declaration that people are not being paid fairly is nothing short of an extremely BIASED OPINION.

More "claiming the expert bullshit, no explaination needed. Again, don't play the fool, it doesn't suit you.

I didn't claim to be an expert. I asked you to DEFINE A LIVING WAGE. You far left parrots trot out that statement all the time and then continually FAIL to define what exactly it means.

So are we, as are our vehicles.

Who have been the spendthrifts? I know, you disagreed with BushII. So, you voted for Obama?

yes, we export, but not to the extent Germany does. Both parties have been spendthrifts. The point was that Germany has cut wasteful programs from their budget. We do not.... and by we I mean BOTH parties.

That doesn't seem to be the case, care to offer any proof? I have a theory; I used to buy american made tools, they were the best available. Unfortunately, the companies I used to buy from now have their tools made in China, and I don't buy them anymore. I now buy many tools from Germany. Perhaps I am not alone?

So you too are buying exports from Germany. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Yeah, so very evil. How dare those states allow workers to CHOOSE rather than be FORCED to join a union.

Because unions are required to represent the entire workforce, a closed shop is really the only contract that make sense under our system. If you don't want to join a union, and want to be treated like shit, get a different job.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Carter was a democrat...he did the exact same thing with federal worker's unions. FDR another democrat said public employee unions:

"... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."
​

To get this in historical context, Congress enacted the landmark National Labor Relations Act ("Wagner Act") in 1935 - the Magna Carta of the American labor movement. It excluded federal, state and local employees. It created the National Labor Relations Board to enforce the rights of labor. Employers were legally obligated to bargain collectively with their employees. In 1937 in a Senate speech, Roosevelt intoned, "The denial or observance of this right means the difference between despotism and democracy." (One would be led to think that before 1935, America was not a democracy.)

read more

I have a proposal. In order for a corporation to form, they should have to pass a secret ballot election, and all the inane bureaucracy that entails, with the workers constantly barraging them over the issue, rather than simply being able to get together and freely form a corporation. Would you support this idea?

 

[The Dude]

bf likes getting schooled but didn't like school. WTF

 

[Minister of Truth]

I have a proposal. In order for a corporation to form, they should have to pass a secret ballot election, and all the inane bureaucracy that entails, with the workers constantly barraging them over the issue, rather than simply being able to get together and freely form a corporation. Would you support this idea?

Above post makes no sense. Other WM post is idiotic - we want to get our way, so everyone must be forced to play along...

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

We most certainly do NOT need unions to bargain for wages and benefits. Every individual is capable of doing so on their own and the companies can choose to award their employees based on MERIT.

Individual vs. Corporate bargaining is never going to be nearly as powerful as Union vs. Corporate bargaining. The best worker in the world will not be treated as well under individual bargaining as under collective bargaining. You're an idiot if you think that bosses typically do anything with raises but reward friends anyway.

 

[tinfoil]

Individual vs. Corporate bargaining is never going to be nearly as powerful as Union vs. Corporate bargaining. The best worker in the world will not be treated as well under individual bargaining as under collective bargaining. You're an idiot if you think that bosses typically do anything with raises but reward friends anyway.

LOL
You have anything you can back this assertion up with? What you really mean is this:

The WORST workerS in the world will not be treated as well (as the workers who carry them) under individual bargaining as under collective bargaining.

The best workers get screwed by rules that require the slug who was hired a few weeks earlier get the raise for all the productivity they provide.

 

[The Dude]

Above post makes no sense. Other WM post is idiotic - we want to get our way, so everyone must be forced to play along...

nice waterstool burn

fucking kids, want to take away capitalist rights

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

LOL
You have anything you can back this assertion up with? What you really mean is this:

The WORST workerS in the world will not be treated as well (as the workers who carry them) under individual bargaining as under collective bargaining.

They will do better as well. Everyone will.

The best workers get screwed by rules that require the slug who was hired a few weeks earlier get the raise for all the productivity they provide.

All of the imaginary productivity. Do any of you have a health plan as good as the one provided to each member of the UAW?

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -John Steinback

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Corporations get to screw everyone else in the capitalist economy because they're the only force that's allowed to use collective bargaining. The rest of use get the scraps, while capitalists get to enrich themselves after having done nothing to justify their exorbitant salaries..

 

[The Dude]

let's reset this
local gov's and feds are going broke
promises made to gov stiff(workers) can't be kept

The wrong side of this is to try and tell the capitalist he can't exercise his CAPITALISM giving right to hire or fire as he pleases with his capital.

 

[Damocles]

Because unions are required to represent the entire workforce, a closed shop is really the only contract that make sense under our system. If you don't want to join a union, and want to be treated like shit, get a different job.

Says the guy who promoted odd voting systems because he actually thought it would be more "fair"...

I have a right to not be forced to associate with a semi-governmental entity, even one supposedly created on my behalf.

 

[Bonestorm]

Says the guy who promoted odd voting systems because he actually thought it would be more "fair"...

I have a right to not be forced to associate with a semi-governmental entity, even one supposedly created on my behalf.

You are free to not work at a unionized firm.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Because unions are required to represent the entire workforce, a closed shop is really the only contract that make sense under our system. If you don't want to join a union, and want to be treated like shit, get a different job.

If you want to be represented by a union and want to force others to join whether they want to or not..... go to France.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Individual vs. Corporate bargaining is never going to be nearly as powerful as Union vs. Corporate bargaining. The best worker in the world will not be treated as well under individual bargaining as under collective bargaining. You're an idiot if you think that bosses typically do anything with raises but reward friends anyway.

LMAO.... you are quite wrong. In a union the best workers are not going to be compensated fairly. They are going to get the AVERAGE wage/bene package just like the WORST workers.