Why conservatism (may) have failed.

Mott the Hoople said:
A lot of schools get tagged as crappy schools when what they really have is crappy students with apathetic parents and lousy local support yet the schools and educators get blamed.

Charter schools and vouchers have largely proven what their critics predicted they would. Subsidize prosperous families children's private education on the tax payers dime and drain public resources to charter schools that have largely underperformed both academically and financially if not outright failed. We have spent lavishly on charter schools in Ohio with the results that the vast majority have failed and drained public resources.

If you want to effectively address improving public education there are two issues that need to be addressed.

#1. Finance. The tried and tested method of local property taxes is largely responsible for the inequality we see in public education. So how do we find an equitable manner to finance public education? A whole lot of really smart people have been trying to answer that one.

#2. Parental engagement. What do we do in poorer and disadvantaged communities in which parents are not engaged in their children's education? The old adage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink comes to mind. The best schools and the best teachers cannot succeed with students who do not want to learn. So how do we fix that?
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You need to read more on the topic if you think it's a bunch of rich kids going to charter schools. Rich people aren't sending their kids to charter schools in places like Oakland, Harlem, Mikwaukee, New Orleans and Newark.
 
leaningright said:
3D, every once in a while you knock one out of the park. As an educator in a very rural setting I couldn't agree with your statement more. This is exactly what I see in my profession. And as a result, it is increasingly difficult to do the job of a teacher. That, combined with low pay in several states has prompted many to leave the education profession and has dissuaded many from ever entering. This has caused a shortage of professionally trained teachers in classrooms which in turn has short changed students. It is a viscous, never ending cycle.
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hey you have my respect. I interviewed for a job as a science teacher in Mecklenberg County Schools and between the politics of taking marching orders from people not educated in science and the low pay I declined the offer. They came back with a counter offer of 60% of my current wage and freaked when I said it was to low. Said I would have been one of their highest paid teachers at 40 kpy...that was 14 years ago. Tells me being an educator means far more to you than a pay check. For that you deserve major props.
 
cawacko said:
You need to read more on the topic if you think it's a bunch of rich kids going to charter schools. Rich people aren't sending their kids to charter schools in places like Oakland, Harlem, Mikwaukee, New Orleans and Newark.
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You do. More than 80% of the Charter schools in our State have failed. Some Charter schools do succeed and we should learn from them but it's hard to argue with failure and most have failed.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You do. More than 80% of the Charter schools in our State have failed. Some Charter schools do succeed and we should learn from them but it's hard to argue with failure and most have failed.
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As great as Ohio is, and it is exceptional, the country is much bigger than one state.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
i couldn't tell you. I didn't become a Democrat till 2004.
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My comment was directed at people who have gone in the opposite direction in politics. I've said for a long time that the worst thing to happen to the GOP is former Democrats. Especially southerners who come from a long, "proud" history of Yellow Dogs, and drifted into the party starting in the 70s (at least nationally. Some were more on the Zell Miller timeline). I always tell them that I don't care how sexy JFK was - he still wasn't a good president.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
hey you have my respect. I interviewed for a job as a science teacher in Mecklenberg County Schools and between the politics of taking marching orders from people not educated in science and the low pay I declined the offer. They came back with a counter offer of 60% of my current wage and freaked when I said it was to low. Said I would have been one of their highest paid teachers at 40 kpy...that was 14 years ago. Tells me being an educator means far more to you than a pay check. For that you deserve major props.
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Yeah, that's about what one can expect to start at here in WA with a master's degree.
 
It Is Illogical to Listen to Successes in a Failed System for Advice

Mott the Hoople said:
A lot of schools get tagged as crappy schools when what they really have is crappy students with apathetic parents and lousy local support yet the schools and educators get blamed.

Charter schools and vouchers have largely proven what their critics predicted they would. Subsidize prosperous families children's private education on the tax payers' dime and drain public resources to charter schools that have largely underperformed both academically and financially, if not outright failed. We have spent lavishly on charter schools in Ohio with the results that the vast majority have failed and drained public resources.

If you want to effectively address improving public education there are two issues that need to be addressed.

#1. Finance. The tried and tested method of local property taxes is largely responsible for the inequality we see in public education. So how do we find an equitable manner to finance public education?

#2. Parental engagement. What do we do in poorer and disadvantaged communities in which parents are not engaged in their children's education? The adage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink comes to mind. The best schools and the best teachers cannot succeed with students who do not want to learn. So how do we fix that?
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Compare it to sports. Black schools' sports programs are also underfunded, but their teams still win many championships. The Bell Curve and an untamed jungle nature are the real causes of their academic failures.

As for White schools, the structure is unnatural for children, who need to form teams and compete for a prize. Divide the class into teams and quiz frequently. The team with the highest score will get Friday off, the lowest-scoring team will have to come in on Saturday. High-scoring individual students from four grades older will get paid to teach the Saturday classes. Studying to get a job 5 to 20 years into the future is a non-starter.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
A lot of schools get tagged as crappy schools when what they really have is crappy students with apathetic parents and lousy local support yet the schools and educators get blamed.
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Bingo.

Charter schools and vouchers have largely proven what their critics predicted they would. Subsidize prosperous families children's private education on the tax payers dime and drain public resources to charter schools that have largely underperformed both academically and financially if not outright failed. We have spent lavishly on charter schools in Ohio with the results that the vast majority have failed and drained public resources.
Click to expand...
Just listening to a local legislator speak about this today on Public Radio. Unlike public schools, charter schools can legally hire lobbyists, and back politicians in elections.

If you want to effectively address improving public education there are two issues that need to be addressed.
Click to expand...

#1. Finance. The tried and tested method of local property taxes is largely responsible for the inequality we see in public education. So how do we find an equitable manner to finance public education? A whole lot of really smart people have been trying to answer that one.
Click to expand...
I don't think it takes a genius. Implement a state income tax and lower property tax burden. That way, everyone gets to contribute. If they want to use the current census for disbursement, so be it.

#2. Parental engagement. What do we do in poorer and disadvantaged communities in which parents are not engaged in their children's education? The old adage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink comes to mind. The best schools and the best teachers cannot succeed with students who do not want to learn. So how do we fix that?
Click to expand...
Yes. Plenty of very successful people came out of public schools with horrible stats. They had a strong family unit.

We're seeing 5th generation illiterate families now. Some parents couldn't help kids with homework even if they wanted to. I suggest adult education for these parents who wish to learn basic reading/writing/math.

With absolutely no interest in learning, it's very hard to force kids to excel.
 
Establishment said:
It would be great to see some big civic organizations pop-up that deliver adult education within the community.
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My stepson was the valedictorian of his class. His two sisters were also model students, and are doing very well in life. The schools in my area have horrid statistics, but anyone who has the desire, can receive a good education. I was the homework guru when they were small.

Stepson is teaching English in the same school he attended. The vast majority of kids in our schools have absolutely no desire to learn. He was actually lucky to land a job teaching around here. He majored in business, graduated college a year early, and realized he isn't cut out for that world.

Went back to school and got his masters. He cannot honestly say it's gratifying work, as he doesn't have enough tenure to teach accelerated students yet. Mostly, he babysits unruly students.

Several years ago I told him that he might make a name for himself if he pushed for an adult education program that entailed teachers like him donating time to the community.

Someone has to take the first step.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
not if you rate you State by educational outcomes and attainment where Florida is one of the worst in the nation.
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The state earned 28th in an overall ranking of states and the District of Columbia published every year by Education Week in its "Quality Counts" report. That's a significant drop from past years when Florida ranked as high as fifth and no lower than 11th.Jan 8, 2015"
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beat me..I have extreme limited interest. all I care about is I don't have to pay state taxes to support them.

My property taxes have a "homestead exemption"- living in the same place over a period of time gets me an exemption.
Most X-pressways are tolled -so tourists also pay to use them. I don't drive to work -
I work from home - so that's again less I have to pay for roads I seldom use.

The Florida tradition is low cost, and wherever possible soak the tourists and newcomers with user fees.. Works for me.
 
Bill said:
So the crappy school is closed & what happens to the ppl that worked there??
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if the school closes, I guess they gotta go somewhere else. It's hard, but why pay for failing schools?
The states population now exceeds New York's -not by much -but there is always new developments/housing & schools opening
 
Establishment said:
My comment was directed at people who have gone in the opposite direction in politics. I've said for a long time that the worst thing to happen to the GOP is former Democrats. Especially southerners who come from a long, "proud" history of Yellow Dogs, and drifted into the party starting in the 70s (at least nationally. Some were more on the Zell Miller timeline). I always tell them that I don't care how sexy JFK was - he still wasn't a good president.
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what's the difference between Blue Dogs and Yellow Dogs?..
 
anatta said:
if the school closes, I guess they gotta go somewhere else. It's hard, but why pay for failing schools?
The states population now exceeds New York's -not by much -but there is always new developments/housing & schools opening
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Kinda like the Catholic church & those "priests".......
 
anatta said:
what's the difference between Blue Dogs and Yellow Dogs?..
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Blue Dogs are urban dwellers who work industrial union jobs, and vote Democrat (basically a cross of blue collar with yellow dog) while Yellow Dog typically meant southern retard. I don't know if it has an application outside of the south in places like CA or VT.
 
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