Who gets into heaven

[Dutch Uncle]

By the same token, if it doesn't involve happiness, why would we want it?
As you allude, it's been often opined in these discussions that human feelings and emotions transcend our physical constitutions.

Absent the availability of perfect happiness as we can try to imagine it,
what can possibly be better that the perfect peace that comes with cessation of existence as a living organism with consciousness?

To me, with the apparent and unexplained thought process to which I have access now,
an immortal soul would seem to be a frightening liability and affliction
bringing the possibility of eternal absence of happiness.


Perhaps that's why I may be prejudiced against believing in one.

Disagreed. Animals are emotional. The hatred being spewed by MAGAts and others is emotional. Anger and hatred blind the reasoning powers of the human mind. Much has been written about the human heart and love, but it's a short trip to human lust and Bill Clinton sitting in the Oval Office with his pants around his ankles.

People often think of heaven as keeping their individuality, but, IMO, that's not a transcending move. It's a lateral move. Transcendence would be becoming part of a universal or greater overmind. It would be all-knowing and eternal.

For some reason, some people are scared of losing their individuality in an eternal realm.

 

[Cypress]

Which Heaven?

From the nature of the poll question, some generic and vague concept of heaven from the Christian tradition.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Disagreed. Animals are emotional. The hatred being spewed by MAGAts and others is emotional. Anger and hatred blind the reasoning powers of the human mind. Much has been written about the human heart and love, but it's a short trip to human lust and Bill Clinton sitting in the Oval Office with his pants around his ankles.

People often think of heaven as keeping their individuality, but, IMO, that's not a transcending move. It's a lateral move. Transcendence would be becoming part of a universal or greater overmind. It would be all-knowing and eternal.

For some reason, some people are scared of losing their individuality in an eternal realm.

Interesting concept.
It's certainly not something I can imagine wanting in any configuration of myself.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Interesting concept.
It's certainly not something I can imagine wanting in any configuration of myself.

Unlimited knowledge, no pain, seeing everyone who ever lived or will live? Sounds like fun to me.

 

[anonymoose]

If there are any other Christians who would like to pitch in and help, I'll pick up the tab on the first round of meat-lovers pizzas once I'm in. The two-liter bottles of soda are included.

My favorite !

We can do this.

I may have to get re-baptized as an Episcopal again.

 

[anonymoose]

Anyway, you are obviously a miserable queeb who has no sense of humor.

That's really all that needed to be said.

 

[IBDaMann]

My favorite ! I may have to get re-baptized as an Episcopal again.

Whatever you gotta do to get me in, let's get'er done.

 

[Cypress]

By the same token, if it doesn't involve happiness, why would we want it?
As you allude, it's been often opined in these discussions that human feelings and emotions transcend our physical constitutions.

IMO, it's more probable than not that our moral conscience, our imagination, our deepest and most profound love are something beyond physics and chemistry.

Absent the availability of perfect happiness as we can try to imagine it,
what can possibly be better that the perfect peace
that comes with cessation of existence as a living organism with consciousness?

afaik, the major world religions see spiritual liberation as the complete absence of negative states: suffering, hatred, greed, resentment, etc. That in itself is a kind of ultimate peace and tranquility.

To me, with the apparent and unexplained thought process to which I have access now,
an immortal soul would seem to be a frightening liability and affliction
bringing the possibility of eternal absence of happiness.

In fact, the Catholic church defines hell not as fire and brimstone but simply the absence of God.
I can loosely equate that with the absence of happiness.

Perhaps that's why I may be prejudiced against believing in the immortal soul.

As for irreligious people, the Buddhists, Hindus, Christians seem to have a cosmology that does not require anyone to seek spiritual liberation or salvation. Certain strands of religious thought seem to believe you will just blink permanently out of existence, or you will continue to be frozen into a cycle of reincarnation/samsara. In a certain sense, nothing ever really ceases to exist, we know that from the laws of conservation.

 

[Crepitus]

From the nature of the poll question, some generic and vague concept of heaven from the Christian tradition.

Like winged children in robes playing harps?

No thanks.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Like winged children in robes playing harps?

No thanks.

It could be relative. Sitting on a golden throne surrounded by young girls singing him praises would be Trump's version of Heaven, but it would be Hell for the young girls.

 

[Crepitus]

It could be relative. Sitting on a golden throne surrounded by young girls singing him praises would be Trump's version of Heaven, but it would be Hell for the young girls.

I'd rather go to the Pastafarian heaven.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'd rather go to the Pastafarian heaven.

Again relative; a beer volcano and a stripper would be Heaven for you but Hell for the stripper.

 

[Margot]

Some think hell is a metaphor for living in the absence of faith and god in this life.

There's some truth in that

 

[Crepitus]

Again relative; a beer volcano and a stripper would be Heaven for you but Hell for the stripper.

Well, since it came straight outta the factory I'm not sure it would count but....

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well, since it came straight outta the factory I'm not sure it would count but....

Is the stripper human?

One person's heaven is another person's hell?

 

[Crepitus]

Is the stripper human?

One person's heaven is another person's hell?

I dunno. I never seen a factory that could build a human.

You do realize this isn't mean to be taken seriously, right?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I dunno. I never seen a factory that could build a human.

You do realize this isn't mean to be taken seriously, right?

Why would the FSM need a factory?

Of course. I don't take any religions seriously.

 

[WinterBorn]

The poll question is only applicable to people who believe in an afterlife, a heaven, some type of spiritual liberation.

There is no point in asking if atheists will achieve spiritual liberation; they are not working towards that goal, and they don't believe in an afterlife.

An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in any God or Gods. It does not mean they do not believe in an afterlife.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in any God or Gods. It does not mean they do not believe in an afterlife.

There are different flavors of "atheist". Your definition is why some atheists label all Buddhists as atheists. OTOH, as some of the highly emotional and poorly educated militant atheists on this and similar threads have proclaimed, "when you're dead, you're dead". No afterlife. No soul. Nothing. They believe we are all meat robots with no more value than our component parts.

 

[Cypress]

An atheist is simply someone who does not believe in any God or Gods. It does not mean they do not believe in an afterlife.

Okay.
Life after death implies people have a soul, a spirit, a life force independent of the atomic matter of the body. That would be a fringe belief in any atheist community. I don't think I've ever met any internet atheists before who believe people have souls or spirits.