Some think hell is a metaphor for living in the absence of faith and god in this life.
Who gets into heaven
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
It fits with the dichotomic nature of the universe. On one side is light and goodness, on the other is darkness and evilness.
IMO, it's a choice people make.
I agree with your concept of free will.
Even if religion is a total delusion, there seems to be a strong statistical correlation between people who are actively religious and happiness.
Christopher Hitchens, Donald Trump, and Richard Dawkins never seemed particularly happy to me.
Religion’s Relationship to Happiness, Civic Engagement and Health Around the World
In the U.S. and other countries, participation in a congregation is a key factor
People who are active in religious congregations tend to be happier and more civically engaged than either religiously unaffiliated adults or inactive members of religious groups, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of survey data from the United States and more than two dozen other countries.
Religiously active people also tend to smoke and drink less, but they are not healthier in terms of exercise frequency and rates of obesity. Nor, in most countries, are highly religious people more likely to rate themselves as being in very good overall health – though the U.S. is among the possible exceptions.
Many previous studies have found positive associations between religion and health in the United States. Researchers have shown, for example, that Americans who regularly attend religious services tend to live longer.1 Other studies have focused on narrower health benefits, such as how religion may help breast cancer patients cope with stress. On the other hand, there are also studies that have not found a robust relationship between religion and better health in the U.S., and even some studies that have shown negative relationships, such as higher rates of obesity among highly religious Americans.
Religion’s Relationship to Happiness, Civic Engagement and Health Around the World
People who are active in religious congregations tend to be happier and more civically engaged than either religiously unaffiliated adults or inactive members of religious groups, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of survey data from the United States and more than two dozen other...
www.pewresearch.org
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I've never seen a happy atheist.....but that's probably due to the fact happy atheists aren't online bitching and whining at others.I agree with your concept of free will.
Even if religion is a total delusion, there seems to be a strong statistical correlation between people who are actively religious and happiness.
Christopher Hitchens, Donald Trump, and Richard Dawkins never seemed particularly happy to me.
Religion’s Relationship to Happiness, Civic Engagement and Health Around the World
In the U.S. and other countries, participation in a congregation is a key factorPeople who are active in religious congregations tend to be happier and more civically engaged than either religiously unaffiliated adults or inactive members of religious groups, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of survey data from the United States and more than two dozen other countries.Religiously active people also tend to smoke and drink less, but they are not healthier in terms of exercise frequency and rates of obesity. Nor, in most countries, are highly religious people more likely to rate themselves as being in very good overall health – though the U.S. is among the possible exceptions.Many previous studies have found positive associations between religion and health in the United States. Researchers have shown, for example, that Americans who regularly attend religious services tend to live longer.1 Other studies have focused on narrower health benefits, such as how religion may help breast cancer patients cope with stress. On the other hand, there are also studies that have not found a robust relationship between religion and better health in the U.S., and even some studies that have shown negative relationships, such as higher rates of obesity among highly religious Americans.Religion’s Relationship to Happiness, Civic Engagement and Health Around the World
People who are active in religious congregations tend to be happier and more civically engaged than either religiously unaffiliated adults or inactive members of religious groups, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of survey data from the United States and more than two dozen other...
Although the numbers are close, they are consistent. The stats about being active in other, secular groups was interesting too:
In the U.S., 58% of actively religious adults say they are also active in at least one other (nonreligious) kind of voluntary organization, including charity groups, sports clubs or labor unions. Only about half of all inactively religious adults (51%) and fewer than half of the unaffiliated (39%) say the same.
Out of the eight or nine Protestant denominational services I've attended, you are consistently going to get an earful about service to the community and service to other people. So while there are shitty fake Christians, like the ones on JPP, people who genuinely want to be a witness for Christ already tend to at least have belief in a service-oriented ethos. That doesn't mean irreligious people aren't community and service oriented, but your stats seem to suggest the religious ethos of service extends beyond the church
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
It's interesting to me to see the traits are both cross-cultural and cross-religion. Taiwan, for example, is mainly Buddhist and Daoist.
4 facts about religion and diversity in Taiwan
Buddhists, the religiously unaffiliated and Daoists each make up about a quarter of Taiwan’s adult population.
www.pewresearch.org
Taiwan must be the Bible belt of East Asia, lolIt's interesting to me to see the traits are both cross-cultural and cross-religion. Taiwan, for example, is mainly Buddhist and Daoist.
4 facts about religion and diversity in Taiwan
Buddhists, the religiously unaffiliated and Daoists each make up about a quarter of Taiwan’s adult population.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
LOL
As your Pew Research link touched upon, it's not clear if it's religious/spiritual beliefs that make people happier or if happy people tend to be more religious/spiritual. Probably a little of both.
The exact nature of the connections between religious participation, happiness, civic engagement and health remains unclear and needs further study. While the data presented in this report indicate that there are links between religious activity and certain measures of well-being in many countries, the numbers do not prove that going to religious services is directly responsible for improving people’s lives. Rather, it could be that certain kinds of people tend to be active in multiple types of activities (secular as well as religious), many of which may provide physical or psychological benefits. Moreover, such people may be more active partly because they are happier and healthier, rather than the other way around. (For more information about what may be causing these links, see this sidebar.)
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
The question that I always had about the conventional concepts of Heaven is this:
Suppose someone who accesses Heaven on merit
cannot be happy
unless someone who doesn't merit access is there as well?
Suppose someone who accesses Heaven on merit
cannot be happy
unless someone who doesn't merit access is there as well?
Crepitus
Verified User
Which Heaven?
Denomination % Who believe non-Christian religions can lead to heaven/salvation Catholics 61% Mainline Protestants 56% Historically black churches 40% Evangelicals 23%
U.S.: 60% of Christians believe other faiths also lead to heaven
A Pew Research survey finds that a large majority of Americans believe in the existence of hell, while only four in ten Catholics and Protestants believe the Christian faith is the only way. A new Pew Research survey found that 73 per cent of United States adults believe in heaven, while 62 per...www.chvnradio.com
Statistics can rarely prove anything. Good point.LOL
As your Pew Research link touched upon, it's not clear if it's religious/spiritual beliefs that make people happier or if happy people tend to be more religious/spiritual. Probably a little of both.
The exact nature of the connections between religious participation, happiness, civic engagement and health remains unclear and needs further study. While the data presented in this report indicate that there are links between religious activity and certain measures of well-being in many countries, the numbers do not prove that going to religious services is directly responsible for improving people’s lives. Rather, it could be that certain kinds of people tend to be active in multiple types of activities (secular as well as religious), many of which may provide physical or psychological benefits. Moreover, such people may be more active partly because they are happier and healthier, rather than the other way around. (For more information about what may be causing these links, see this sidebar.)
Being involved in community undoubtedly makes one feel their life is more fulfilled. Whether that means being involved in church, school boards, service organizations.
There has been some recognition among atheists of the importance of these kind of social models, and they started using the model of the Christian church to create their own atheist churches - where they listen to sermons by Richard Dawkins, sing Billy Joel songs, or whatever.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Conventional concepts of heaven are archaic. They were conceived by relatively unsophisticated people seeking to understand something larger and more complex than the Universe itself.
As such it's like two dimensional beings such as in "Flatland" trying imagine the third dimension. Or, in our case, three dimensional beings trying to imagine the fourth dimension. At best we can conjecture a fuzzy picture of transcendence, but our mortal minds can't handle more than that.
In short, once free of our bodies, how can we have emotions like happiness or sadness?
Flatland - Wikipedia
A Guide to Flatland: What It's Like to Live in Two Dimensions
Mathematician Ian Stewart wants us to see what he sees. Which is kind of a problem, because he’s accustomed to envisioning some pretty impossible shapes: snowflakes in fractional dimensions, hypercubes in 4-D, 11-dimensional superstrings. So when the University of Warwick professor and author...
So, basically.... YOU.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
As this and other threads have proved, atheists run in as large a gamut of beliefs as Protestants in America.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Well, to be fair, most people get mildly ill and have a horrible reaction when you walk in a room anyway. It starts with the smell and then you open your mouth.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
^^^
Poor, poor widdle twoll. Sad.
Sadder that you lied about having me on ignore, but you're well known to be a liar, son.
3% of atheists believe in heaven
Views on the afterlife
Majorities of U.S. adults say they believe in heaven, hell Nearly three-quarters of U.S. adults say they believe in heaven. (The survey did not
www.pewresearch.org
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Something else the militant atheists will never admit to recognizing.3% of atheists believe in heaven
Views on the afterlife
Majorities of U.S. adults say they believe in heaven, hell Nearly three-quarters of U.S. adults say they believe in heaven. (The survey did not
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
By the same token, if it doesn't involve happiness, why would we want it?
As you allude, it's been often opined in these discussions that human feelings and emotions transcend our physical constitutions.
Absent the availability of perfect happiness as we can try to imagine it,
what can possibly be better that the perfect peace
that comes with cessation of existence as a living organism with consciousness?
To me, with the apparent and unexplained thought process to which I have access now,
an immortal soul would seem to be a frightening liability and affliction
bringing the possibility of eternal absence of happiness.
In fact, the Catholic church defines hell not as fire and brimstone but simply the absence of God.
I can loosely equate that with the absence of happiness.
Perhaps that's why I may be prejudiced against believing in the immortal soul.