What do you know? Ron Paul accepts money from White Supremacist!

blackascoal said:
It works to open doors previously closed to segments of this society, which includes women and the disabled.

It's real simple.
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It makes race and gender a factor in the hiring or admission practice. It uses race and gender as part of the process, thus it discriminates. If it truly, honestly did not discriminate, it would not be concerned with race or gender, and thus it would not exist.

Now people have different perspectives on the utility and application of it, and that's great, that's what debate is all about, but it doesn't change the fact that it uses race and gender as factors to promote hiring or admissions. It discriminates, no matter how you want to paint it.

Is it the word "discriminate" that makes its proponents uncomfortable? It is what it is. I don't see how you can say with a straight face, that it does not use any form of discrimination. Its simply untrue.
 
Beefy said:
It makes race and gender a factor in the hiring or admission practice. It uses race and gender as part of the process, thus it discriminates. If it truly, honestly did not discriminate, it would not be concerned with race or gender, and thus it would not exist.

Now people have different perspectives on the utility and application of it, and that's great, that's what debate is all about, but it doesn't change the fact that it uses race and gender as factors to promote hiring or admissions. It discriminates, no matter how you want to paint it.

Is it the word "discriminate" that makes its proponents uncomfortable? It is what it is. I don't see how you can say with a straight face, that it does not use any form of discrimination. Its simply untrue.
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It doesn't discriminate. Its only a tool to open doors to opportunities in the public sector that would otherwise be shut to certain people, such as women, disabled people, and people of color. Nobody's getting a free ride. The courts have upheld that AA isn't discrimination, as long as quotas aren't used.
 
AngryWhiteChick said:
I think Asshat has already won the debate here kids. Its racial discrimination and we need to stand up and fight against it.
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You can celebrate whomever you want and you can fight against it all you want. Who cares?

But if you are really a "white chick", which I doubt, then you should know that women like you have been the biggest AA winners.

But feel free to focus on the racial.
 
Cypress said:
It doesn't discriminate. Its only a tool to open doors to opportunities in the public sector that would otherwise be shut to certain people, such as women, disabled people, and people of color. Nobody's getting a free ride. The courts have upheld that AA isn't discrimination, as long as quotas aren't used.
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Explain how this "tool" works if it is not using race or gender as a basis for preferential hiring or admissions.

Maybe I'm missing something. But just saying "it isn't discrimination" doesn't magically make it non discriminatory.
 
blackascoal said:
You can celebrate whomever you want and you can fight against it all you want. Who cares?

But if you are really a "white chick", which I doubt, then you should know that women like you have been the biggest AA winners.

But feel free to focus on the racial.
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I think you're right about that. I don't think this is any white chick. I still think it's asshat who went and created a frankencyber girlfriend for himself.

I don't see it ending any better than Shelley's original either.
 
Beefy said:
Explain how this "tool" works if it is not using race or gender as a basis for preferential hiring or admissions.

Maybe I'm missing something. But just saying "it isn't discrimination" doesn't magically make it non discriminatory.
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It's not. Since through our history miniorities and women were openly and freely discriminated against in the job market, AA says very simply, all other things being equal, you hire the minority or the woman.

All other things being equal.

Now, why shouldn't they? Are you saying that all other things being equal they should hire the white male?
 
Beefy said:
Explain how this "tool" works if it is not using race or gender as a basis for preferential hiring or admissions.

Maybe I'm missing something. But just saying "it isn't discrimination" doesn't magically make it non discriminatory.
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Think of it this way. Do you think Title 9 is "sexist" because it accounts for gender? You know, title 9 was the law that opened to doors for female collegiate athletics.

Of course it wasn't sexist. You'd be laughed out the room, for suggesting it was. It was a tool to address the fact that women had the door shut on them, in terms of the ability to participate in athletics at the collegiate level.

You appear to think that any regulatory tool that uses race, gender, or disability status automatically renders it racist, or sexist. By mere virtue that race or gender is used in the statute.

That's not the basis of discrmination. You'd have to prove whites were being discriminated against, or suffering unfairly at the hands of women and people of color, due to AA.

They're NOT.
 
Darla said:
I think you're right about that. I don't think this is any white chick. I still think it's asshat who went and created a frankencyber girlfriend for himself.

I don't see it ending any better than Shelley's original either.
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Are you going to explain to us now its not racial discrimination?

This is nothing more than a doormat welcoming brown people into this country to the demise of us good white folk.
 
Cypress said:
Think of it this way. Do you think Title 9 is "sexist" because it accounts for gender? You know, title 9 was the law that opened to doors for female collegiate athletics.

Of course it wasn't sexist. You'd be laughed out the room, for suggesting it was. It was a tool to address the fact that women had the door shut on them, in terms of the ability to participate in athletics at the collegiate level.

You appear to think that any regulatory tool that uses race, gender, or disability status automatically renders it racist, or sexist. By mere virtue that race or gender is used in the statute.

That's not the basis of discrmination. You'd have to prove whites were being discriminated against, or suffering unfairly at the hands of women and people of color, due to AA.

They're NOT.
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So then, tell me how it works without using smarmy metaphors like "opens doors".
 
Cypress said:
Think of it this way. Do you think Title 9 is "sexist" because it accounts for gender? You know, title 9 was the law that opened to doors for female collegiate athletics.

Of course it wasn't sexist. You'd be laughed out the room, for suggesting it was. It was a tool to address the fact that women had the door shut on them, in terms of the ability to participate in athletics at the collegiate level.

You appear to think that any regulatory tool that uses race, gender, or disability status automatically renders it racist, or sexist. By mere virtue that race or gender is used in the statute.

That's not the basis of discrmination. You'd have to prove whites were being discriminated against, or suffering unfairly at the hands of women and people of color, due to AA.

They're NOT.
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Men's sports teams are being discriminated against because of Title IX. Good luck ever getting that changed.
 
Beefy said:
It makes race and gender a factor in the hiring or admission practice. It uses race and gender as part of the process, thus it discriminates. If it truly, honestly did not discriminate, it would not be concerned with race or gender, and thus it would not exist.

Now people have different perspectives on the utility and application of it, and that's great, that's what debate is all about, but it doesn't change the fact that it uses race and gender as factors to promote hiring or admissions. It discriminates, no matter how you want to paint it.

Is it the word "discriminate" that makes its proponents uncomfortable? It is what it is. I don't see how you can say with a straight face, that it does not use any form of discrimination. Its simply untrue.
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Not only race and gender, but disability as well. Yet most people against it focus on race alone .. why? .. because it makes the false argument appealing to white men and white women who aren't paying attention.

Without it, white men would continue to discriminate as they always have and the disparities would continue. YOU don't focus on that discrimination, but it is and has always been discrimination.

AA doesn't force the hiring of anyone but takes steps to ensure the doors are open to everyone.

Try "discrimination" on for yourself because in the absence of AA, discrimination is what society gets.
 
Beefy said:
So then, tell me how it works without using smarmy metaphors like "opens doors".
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Good. You appear to understand that we have regulatory tools, like Title 9, that are NOT discriminatory. You're learning. :) Your learning that gender, disability, and race, can be used in a regulatory tool, without being discriminatory.

I'm not going to retype what BAC said. AA, at its core, says that a public, tax-payer funded institution has to be proactive in recruiting and promoting qualified members of of certain socio-economic groups. Groups that would otherwise not have the same opportunities as the white man (generally) in terms of housing, employment, and education.
 
Beefy said:
So then, tell me how it works without using smarmy metaphors like "opens doors".
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There are rules now against discriminating in job hiring based on race, sex etc. So A.A. does not give people jobs that they could not otherwise have because of the law because the law already allows them to have these jobs.
 
Cypress said:
Good. You appear to understand that we have regulatory tools, like Title 9, that are NOT discriminatory. You're learning. :) Your learning that gender, disability, and race, can be used in a regulatory tool, without being discriminatory.

I'm not going to retype what BAC said. AA, at its core, says that a public, tax-payer funded institution has to be proactive in recruiting and promoting qualified members of of certain socio-economic groups. Groups that would otherwise not have the same opportunities as the white man (generally) in terms of housing, employment, and education.
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You're about to lose your man card once again with this Title IX talk.
 
cawacko said:
There are rules now against discriminating in job hiring based on race, sex etc. So A.A. does not give people jobs that they could not otherwise have because of the law because the law already allows them to have these jobs.
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I think that black people, whom, by law, (or "rules") could vote in Mississippi in 1960 would laugh their asses off at the incredible naivety of your post, but hopefully, they would punch you in the head once they stopped laughing because someone has to knock some sense into that thing.

Oh, they're are "rules" hahahahhahahahaa
 
Oh Gawd, I can't bear to witness white men cry that they are being discriminated against. :crybaby: Because of AA, Title 9, or the civil rights laws.

Please. its embarrasing. We as white men, will never be limited in our opportunities in jobs, wages, education, housing, or catching a taxi cab. Our skin color and gender will never shut a door for us, on any of that.
 
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