We have been played for fools.

Cypress said:
You have been demanding since February 25 that Ukranians stand down, surrender, and submit.

It's not for you to decide what they should do. They want to fight, and their tenacity and pain tolerance is orders of magnitude higher than MAGA weaklings. History has bred them to be resilient and tenacious.

I would take a squad of Ukranian female soldiers over a hundred MAGA milquetoast militia.

When Ukraine decides to stop fighting, I won't demand we force them to fight. I am leaving it up to them.
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I thought you were a history buff. I have nothing against Ukraine...but the truth is history says that Ukraine has been laying down for ages depending on who appears to be the winning side. Truth is,....you just like to TALK and PRETEND to know what you are actually talking about. You dont. You would do well to simply put me on ignore. I have been PLAYING with you imbeciles for a couple years now, just having a little fun . Just in the last couple days I have decided to give you idiots a little taste of the real Stone. It only gets worse from here. ;)
 
The real Stone is a very nice guy. But even nice guys get tired of suffering idiots. When it come to LWers,...this board is crawling with them.
 
Stone said:
The real Stone is a very nice guy. But even nice guys get tired of suffering idiots. When it come to LWers,...this board is crawling with them.
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Case in point........This board has an idiot who screams every day how the " insurrectionists" need to be shot. No,..not dutch,...he's a different idiot. The screaming idiot then advocates for the breakup of the United States into two separate countries. You know,.....the same thing the REAL insurrectionists did that caused the outbreak of our very own civil war. Best part........he is totally unaware how ridiculously conflicted he sounds. :laugh:
 
Stone said:
I thought you were a history buff. I have nothing against Ukraine...but the truth is history says that Ukraine has been laying down for ages depending on who appears to be the winning side. Truth is,....you just like to TALK and PRETEND to know what you are actually talking about. You dont. You would do well to simply put me on ignore. I have been PLAYING with you imbeciles for a couple years now, just having a little fun . Just in the last couple days I have decided to give you idiots a little taste of the real Stone. It only gets worse from here. ;)
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You may be the type that is quick to surrender and submit.

You have been demanding Ukrainians surrender since February 25.

They don't need your permission to keep fighting. Ukrainians obviously have the motivation and intention to keep fighting, rather than accept your advice to submit to Dear Vlad.
 
You guys are so wrong on so many of the issues that its ridiculous. Take the gun issue. Do you think I give one fuck about AR 15's? I dont. I care about hunting Rifles and hunting shot guns. Thats it. I could care less about pistols either. For the most part they are toys , close range bullshit. I dont need one. Never have. If someone fucks around I'll either break their neck or choke them out and take theirs,...then I'll have one. :laugh: the pistol in its many forms is far and away the gun used to commit most murders, or any crime for that matter......but do you scream for pistols to be done away with? Nope,... not a peep. Ill take a 306 with an open site and go up against a ten man army of scumbags with pistols and they will ALL be dead in short order. All about being able to reach out and touch somebody. Point being.....you want shootings and shooting deaths to go down? Address the guns most commonly attached to those crimes. Wouldnt bother me in the least,....junk for the most part anyway. Unless you can give me a recent example of a modern Armys infantry attacking the enemy with side arms! :laugh:
 
Cypress said:
They don't need your permission to keep fighting. Ukrainians obviously have the motivation and intention to keep fighting, rather than accept your advice to submit to Dear Vlad.
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In the end they will sadly end up in the same position they are in now. Only difference is they will lose more towns, infrastructure, and a whole lot more of their people dead.
 
Stone said:
In the end they will sadly end up in the same position they are in now. Only difference is they will lose more towns, infrastructure, and a whole lot more of their people dead.
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Maybe. Putin certainly didn't expect this to take this long, or his economy to suffer as much as it is. The Ukraine may still extend this to a point that is untenable for Russia.

Regardless, the idea that everyone should just lay down to a mass murdering lunatic dictator is sad. It's not the American spirit, imo - or the spirit of anyone who values independence, sovereignty & freedom.
 
moon said:
Chalk and cheese- as I've told you before. The Jewish fascists want to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the Palestinians and erase them from history. The Russians simply want a neutral, Nazi-free, buffer state.

Don't come back with that stupid comparison again.
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As trying to contribute Father's Day has turned into "serve the Pope or die" as the Catholic Church new father of Islam medical human reproduction pseudoscience maintaining suicidal super egos in sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming with Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdom Christiananality pedophilia enforcement granted standing by SCOTUS while throwing away their last strand of honor; all for what seems to be a deep state contract between the USA & Soviet Union to uphold Nazi Germany contracts with Islam bartered by the Pope as bungling GI Joe biding his time with Ukraine as a better never than late confrontation with Russia's Orthodox Church rootin' tootin' Putin for annihilation of counter points with fabricated Nazi misnomer mass neuroses & mass psychoses in survival of the fittest fascists Peter Principle pyramid scheme of Islam "death to the infidels" .
 
BartenderElite said:
Maybe. Putin certainly didn't expect this to take this long, or his economy to suffer as much as it is. The Ukraine may still extend this to a point that is untenable for Russia.

Regardless, the idea that everyone should just lay down to a mass murdering lunatic dictator is sad. It's not the American spirit, imo - or the spirit of anyone who values independence, sovereignty & freedom.
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Dude.....lemme ask you something. Remember when we invaded Iraq? What did we do? we pounded them relentlessly for weeks by way of B2's , land based Missile systems, air, and sea. We knocked out their comms, targeted leadership, supply chain, Fuel, ect ect ect. We did that before a single boot besides recon touched the ground. You dont think Russia couldnt have easily done the same? :laugh: WHY is it do you think that they didnt?
 
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dukkha said:
because the VC were dismantled as a fighting force after heavy Tet losses.
But in no way was ARVN a popular supported army


when Russia's redlines are laughed off, when Ukraine became a defacto NATO state HOSTILE to Russia,
and when the west egged it all on an supported Kyiv factions to the point of being complicit in the Maidan,
that set the table for this war.

I've said many times Russia has responsibility for the invasion itself,
but the predicate for the war was all western incited -mostly by the USA..

We can't leave Cold war games alone -and this time it blew up, and we want to say
"hey we didnt do this" - but we set the table :rolleyes:
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I accept your tacit confession that wars can be won without sending an army to fight it.

That was my point all along, despite the howls of protest.

NVA was willing to fight. ARVN was not.

This is the year 2021. Not 1831. Ukraine is a sovereign nation which has the right to decide which international organizations to belong to, without fear of invasion.

You are spouting Kremlin propaganda. Putin and the Russian nationalists have had designs and intentions of making Ukraine a vassal state again for the last 30 years. That calculation was made independent of anything NATO is doing.
 
Cypress said:
I accept your tacit confession that wars can be won without sending an army to fight it.

That was my point all along, despite the howls of protest.

NVA was willing to fight. ARVN was not.

This is the year 2021. Not 1831. Ukraine is a sovereign nation which has the right to decide which international organizations to belong to, without fear of invasion.

You are spouting Kremlin propaganda. Putin and the Russian nationalists have had designs and intentions of making Ukraine a vassal state again for the last 30 years. That calculation was made independent of anything NATO is doing.
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Im not sure what point you are making about "sending an army" -but this is no propaganda

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ld-Trump-Is-Magnificently-Right-About-Ukraine
Russia, after all, proposed the Minsk II framework in which Ukraine would remain neutral, and the Russian-speaking areas of Eastern Ukraine would have autonomous rule within a sovereign Ukraine.
Washington and London encouraged Ukraine to junk the Minsk framework and helped it to arm.

Clinton bears the lion’s share of the blame for the horrific bloodshed now underway in Ukraine:
As Secretary of State, Clinton and her chief Europe aide Victoria Nuland helped stage-manage the Maidan Coup in Ukraine that set the present war in motion.
 
Stone said:
In the end they will sadly end up in the same position they are in now. Only difference is they will lose more towns, infrastructure, and a whole lot more of their people dead.
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It's up to them if they are willing to pay the price for their freedom and sovereignty.

Ukrainians are aware of something you are not. It doesn't matter if they concede some territory to Putin now. His word can't be trusted, and he will be back again in the future to take the rest. All of it.

If giving him territory was the solution, then allowing him to annex Crimea in 2014 should have been the end of the story.

Unlike you, Ukrainians are aware they aren't fighting for little slivers of territory. They are fighting for their national identity. They are resisting 400 years of history during which the tsars considered them nothing more than little Russians subject to the rule of Moscow and the Winter Palace.
 
Cypress said:
It's up to them if they are willing to pay the price for their freedom and sovereignty.

Ukrainians are aware of something you are not. It doesn't matter if they concede some territory to Putin now. His word can't be trusted, and he will be back again in the future to take the rest. All of it.

If giving him territory was the solution, then allowing him to annex Crimea in 2014 should have been the end of the story.

Unlike you, Ukrainians are aware they aren't fighting for little slivers of territory. They are fighting for their national identity. They are resisting 400 years of history during which the tsars considered them nothing more than little Russians subject to the rule of Moscow and the Winter Palace.
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Like I said......it all ends the same.
 
dukkha said:
Im not sure what point you are making about "sending an army" -but this is no propaganda

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ld-Trump-Is-Magnificently-Right-About-Ukraine
Russia, after all, proposed the Minsk II framework in which Ukraine would remain neutral, and the Russian-speaking areas of Eastern Ukraine would have autonomous rule within a sovereign Ukraine.
Washington and London encouraged Ukraine to junk the Minsk framework and helped it to arm.

Clinton bears the lion’s share of the blame for the horrific bloodshed now underway in Ukraine:
As Secretary of State, Clinton and her chief Europe aide Victoria Nuland helped stage-manage the Maidan Coup in Ukraine that set the present war in motion.
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Biden never invited Ukraine to submit an application to join NATO. Nether did Johnson, Macron, or Scholz.

The NATO excuse is a ruse. What we are seeing is 400 years of Russian imperialist ambition play out on the steppes of Ukraine.
 
I wonder what the Trumpsuckers will be saying to excuse Putin when, after he's gotten Ukraine, he starts turning his attention to seizing control of Eastern Europe.

Then the rest of Europe.

One thing we know is, if Trump manages to con enough mental defectives into putting him back in the WH, he'll hold the door open for Russia to walk right in without lifting a finger to stop it because NATO probably won't exist anymore after a Trump return to power.
 
Cypress said:
Biden never invited Ukraine to submit an application to join NATO. Nether did Johnson, Macron, or Scholz.

The NATO excuse is a ruse. What we are seeing is 400 years of Russian imperialist ambition play out on the steppes of Ukraine.
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Man you got your head in the sand with PutinDS

The 2008 Bucharest declaration (which affirmed Nato’s “open door” towards Ukraine and therefore helped to spark this most recent conflict) was NATO's doing

However -for now -
Ukraine CANT be in NATO in current format because it's awesomely corrupt and only semi-democratic

I've given you reams of info how the USA (not so much NATO in particular) set this war up to happen
There is no use in repeating it - if you want to ignore the predicates
 
Having claimed over 14,000 lives since 2014, the conflict in Ukraine is not about Vladimir Putin and his character but realpolitik, national interest, and great power rivalry.
Countries have genuine security interests, some of them existential. They have real red lines.

“No Russian leader could stand idly by,” Putin told William Burns, now the director of the CIA, and accept Nato membership for Ukraine, Georgia, or Belarus, or allow Western weapons systems into these countries.

George Kennan’s reaction to the Clinton administration’s insistence on Nato’s enlargement is particularly telling: “I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the founding fathers of this country turn over in their graves.”

Almost 25 years on, such sober-minded analysis is increasingly rare. And this sidelining of neutral, dispassionate scrutiny in the Russo-Ukrainian War is particularly alarming because this is not America’s war. The North Atlantic has little vital geostrategic interest in Ukraine other than in trying to avoid a refugee or energy crisis. Yet many in Washington, London, or Brussels have goaded and encouraged, and are now revelling in, the conflict — convinced as they are that an extended quagmire there could become the kind of vulnerability for Russia that Afghanistan was for the Soviet Union, a malignant tumour metastasising to the whole of the Russian body politic and instigating regime change.
https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-western-elites-exploit-ukraine/
 
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