WE ARE AT WAR and moderates could lose this election AGAIN

[Jack]

So, it was just a matter of perception and not results?

Does this help:

"On August 9, 2014, Michael Brown Jr., an 18-year-old black man, was fatally shot by 28-year-old white Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

"A grand jury was called and given extensive evidence from Robert McCulloch, the St. Louis County Prosecutor. On November 24, 2014, McCulloch announced the St. Louis County grand jury had decided not to indict Wilson.[11] In March 2015, the U.S. Department of Justice reported the conclusion of its own investigation and cleared Wilson of civil rights violations in the shooting. It found forensic evidence supported Wilson's account, and that witnesses who corroborated the officer's account were credible. Witnesses who had incriminated him were found to be not credible, with some admitting they had not directly seen the events.[12][13] The U.S. Department of Justice concluded that Wilson shot Brown in self-defense."

If the same occurred with AG Barr, do you think anyone would believe that fat Partisan turd?

 

[Nomad]

The progressive resurgence is a reaction to the fascism of the right. So I blame the far right and especially their media for EVERYTHING pulling this country apart. There are people out there who think they can cut the cord that connects the extremes. That cord is the moderates holding the US together. I hope it is as strong as you suggest. There is a reason peaceful marches in the day turn into looting and arson at night and cops and vigilantes are killing black men and boys. I know one thing for sure only, it isn't moderates doing that. Some people INTEND to destroy this country.

That is very likely.

But the far left extremists are helping them by being their willing dupes and tools and associating themselves with the agitators, though.

The entire concept that the police cannot use their weapons to insure they go home alive at the end of their shift is a bit over the top to me.

These aren't innocent little lamb children who are getting shot by the police for fighting with them while resisting arrest. They are grown men who know exactly what they are doing. No thug's life is worth the life of a cop, even if the cop might hold some negative views towards certain minorities.

AAMOF, I would say that the same logic you used above, in which you (not incorrectly) placed the onus of responsibility for the left's reaction to the right on the right, applies to some police officers' views of and attitudes towards some of the black suspects they deal with.

After day in day out observations of the low-life dirt behavior they see and experience first hand, and being that they are only human, it's almost unreasonable to expect them NOT to develop certain prejudices as long as they don't let those prejudices influence their official acts. And I believe that the vast majority of cops can separate their views from the way they carry out their jobs.

I am not supporting or justifying blatant racism or prejudice itself, but in terms of cause and effect.... if a white liberal were to put themself into the shoes of a cop in a major metro area for awhile, they might start looking at things in a slightly different and more understanding light.

 

[blackascoal]

That was difficult to watch. It's unacceptable for some people to still question why BLM exists.

They beat simply and solely for the joy of beating without any concern or regard for his life or the injuries he would sustain.

I completely agree with you on BLM.

 

[blackascoal]

That is very likely.

But the far left extremists are helping them by being their willing dupes and tools and associating themselves with the agitators, though.

The entire concept that the police cannot use their weapons to insure they go home alive at the end of their shift is a bit over the top to me.

These aren't innocent little lamb children who are getting shot by the police for fighting with them while resisting arrest. They are grown men who know exactly what they are doing. No thug's life is worth the life of a cop, even if the cop might hold some negative views towards certain minorities.

AAMOF, I would say that the same logic you used above, in which you (not incorrectly) placed the onus of responsibility for the left's reaction to the right on the right, applies to some police officers' views of and attitudes towards some of the black suspects they deal with.

After day in day out observations of the low-life dirt behavior they see and experience first hand, and being that they are only human, it's almost unreasonable to expect them NOT to develop certain prejudices as long as they don't let those prejudices influence their official acts. And I believe that the vast majority of cops can separate their views from the way they carry out their jobs.

I am not supporting or justifying blatant racism or prejudice itself, but in terms of cause and effect.... if a white liberal were to put themself into the shoes of a cop in a major metro area for awhile, they might start looking at things in a slightly different and more understanding light.

This is not about cops going home alive. Look at the video of cops beating a guy for 6 minutes simply because he was walking on the wrong side of the street and tell me what that has to do with them going home alive? Not a damn thing as it is in a plethora of cases, including many other cases where deadly force was used.

Any cop overcome by racism, should not be a police officer. It’s just that simple.

 

[Micawber]

This is not about cops going home alive. Look at the video of cops beating a guy for 6 minutes simply because he was walking on the wrong side of the street and tell me what that has to do with them going home alive? Not a damn thing as it is in a plethora of cases, including many other cases where deadly force was used.

Any cop overcome by racism, should not be a police officer. It’s just that simple.

One path forward would be a police outreach towards hiring more minority officers. Every time I hear every next story of a cop shooting, I am like, please be a AA cop there also....
I'm almost always disappointed. More minority cops and certainly on beats that are supposed to protect minorities might take some of the racially charged aspect away and generate some trust. (Then we could start looking also at
the have-have not issue) I keep an office in a sketchy little berg here. The homeless problem is profound. It's about 95 % white people who are totally unemployable. Probably ave 5 year life expectancy.

 

[Nomad]

This is not about cops going home alive.

I disagree.

That is the #1 thing of all.

Look at the video of cops beating a guy for 6 minutes simply because he was walking on the wrong side of the street and tell me what that has to do with them going home alive? Not a damn thing as it is in a plethora of cases, including many other cases where deadly force was used.

That is a misrepresentation of what is on that video.

They stopped him for some reason, which admittedly I don't know.

But the reason they used their batons on him was because he started fighting with them and trying to kick at them.

I think most of these people who the cops encounter, know they are on dash cam and audio, so they put on this big screaming act so later on they can get a lawyer and make a false police brutality claim.

During the part I watched.... the roadside part.... they didn't really hit him very hard. Just some around the calves and shins to get him to stop kicking and even those didn't look to be delivered with much force.

Any cop overcome by racism, should not be a police officer. It’s just that simple.

Well "overcome" is a different thing than I was talking about.

Overcome suggests blinded by prejudice to the point that they can no longer separate their negative feelings towards certain people from the way they perform their duty.

Obviously, such out of control bigotry cannot be tolerated in the police depts.

But human beings are always going to develop stereotypical views of people who are different than they are, many of them negative, but most can draw the distinction between those views and their sworn duty. If you were put in a police uniform and assigned to some rowdy, low-rent redneck district where they acted like drunken idiots and fought with and shot at each other and treated each other and everyone else like shit.... there is no way you'd maintain a "Golly gee... those trashy redneck drunks are just folks like the rest of us!!!" attitude towards them.

But you could probably carry out your duty fairly,

Everything works both ways and we are all fallible humans.

 

[blackascoal]

Do you think Michael Brown, Alton Sterling, et al could have learned something from you? I hope you're not teaching kids to resist arrest or attempt taking the cops gun while he's in his cruiser.
Common sense tells me that I'll comply with anybody pointing a gun at me whether it's a cop or a robber or a friend. Anybody.
I'll comply with an unarmed cop for that matter. It's just common sense.

I was once stopped by cops on a dark street in the French Quarter because I was running to my parked car. I guess they suspected I was guilty of something because I was running. I got to my car, locked the door and they banged on the window ordering me to open up. Believe me I was scared shitless.
The last thing I do is try to drive off or resist. I opened up, they searched my car, a let me go after a few questions. Where were you, why were you running, etc. I hope that's what you teach. Glad I don't need to be taught that.

Imagine if you were black and had done the exact same thing you did in the French Quarter? Chances are you would be dead. There is absolutely no question that cops .. especially white cops do not treat Black people with the same regard they treat you or other white people. No question about that whatsoever.

Black cops interact with Black citizens as much if not more than white cops. This is particularly true in areas with higher densities of black people in black cities. Yet, seemingly the majority of egregious cases of police murder and brutality involve white cops.

 

[blackascoal]

I'm brand new to this site, but I think I'm going to like your contributions.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've noticed you touch on two issues: 1.) Progressives settle for a Democratic party that doesn't embrace them. 2.) All good people need to support the Democrats this year because the Republicans cannot address racial reality.

I agree with you on both points. If the Democratic party is supposed to be the more liberal of them, then it needs to start addressing progressives and millennials. It's an old legacy party that operates decades in the past at all times.

Racism never went anywhere. It was pushed into the closet for a long time. The age of Trump welcomed racists out of their closets and into mainstream American culture again. There can be no equivocation for supporting people and a party that sanctions, adopts, and encourages racism. I resist ever viewing political matters as good versus evil, but in 2020, there can be no doubt. No good person can support Trump and what he stands for; and every person who supports Trump and what he stands for is not a good person.

pretty sure I’m going to like you well.

My intent is to see trump gone and avoid the handwringing ant the What happened? If democrats lose again.

What happened is they didn’t respect their base.

 

[blackascoal]

I disagree.

That is the #1 thing of all.



That is a misrepresentation of what is on that video.

They stopped him for some reason, which admittedly I don't know.

But the reason they used their batons on him was because he started fighting with them and trying to kick at them.

I think most of these people who the cops encounter, know they are on dash cam and audio, so they put on this big screaming act so later on they can get a lawyer and make a false police brutality claim.

During the part I watched.... the roadside part.... they didn't really hit him very hard. Just some around the calves and shins to get him to stop kicking and even those didn't look to be delivered with much force.



Well "overcome" is a different thing than I was talking about.

Overcome suggests blinded by prejudice to the point that they can no longer separate their negative feelings towards certain people from the way they perform their duty.

Obviously, such out of control bigotry cannot be tolerated in the police depts.

But human beings are always going to develop stereotypical views of people who are different than they are, many of them negative, but most can draw the distinction between those views and their sworn duty. If you were put in a police uniform and assigned to some rowdy, low-rent redneck district where they acted like drunken idiots and fought with and shot at each other and treated each other and everyone else like shit.... there is no way you'd maintain a "Golly gee... those trashy redneck drunks are just folks like the rest of us!!!" attitude towards them.

But you could probably carry out your duty fairly,

Everything works both ways and we are all fallible humans.

Not sure what video you were watching, but CLEARLY in THIS video the man was compliant right up to the moment when they marched him to the car when they pushed him down started violently beating him,

Not sure how to respond to anything else you’ve said if you can’t even see what is so obvious right in front of your face. He was handcuffed. What threat did he pose to three burly cops who all outweighed him?

 

[Terri4Trump]

Democrats are the party of infanticide, socialism, government control, smashing Free Speech rights, giving free stuff to illegal aliens, and now they are the party of mobs in the streets burning and destroying cities. See the burning cities and torn down statues, and you see the democrat party world. Mobs.

Republicans are the party of Traditional Values, Liberty and freedom. Donald Trump gave us the lowest unemployment rates since John F Kennedy until the virus hit, and now Democrats are trying to keep the virus going because they are so evil they are happy to destroy the economy simply to defeat Trump. That’s right. Masks and continued shutdowns are a joke, based totally on fear. There is a 0.04 death rate for Corona. People have more chance of dying from the Flu.

 

[blackascoal]

One path forward would be a police outreach towards hiring more minority officers. Every time I hear every next story of a cop shooting, I am like, please be a AA cop there also....
I'm almost always disappointed. More minority cops and certainly on beats that are supposed to protect minorities might take some of the racially charged aspect away and generate some trust. (Then we could start looking also at
the have-have not issue) I keep an office in a sketchy little berg here. The homeless problem is profound. It's about 95 % white people who are totally unemployable. Probably ave 5 year life expectancy.

Well said good brother, but as you can see from the responses in this thread, we can all be looking at the exact same thing as see entirely different things. Someone unarmed being handcuffed and on the ground with several burly cops on top of.him somehow poses a life threatening situation FOR THE COPS.

Go figure

 

[Into the Night]

it's no secret that democrats are afraid of its progressive base. Look no further than the DNC convention where the moderates essentially locked the progressives out, including the new squad members. Conventions are usually opportunities to showcase fresh talent and new faces. Instead, moderates decided to showcase republicans rather than their own base. They only gave their biggest rising star, AOC, one minute, sixty seconds to speak to the party.

Now the African-American people are at war, led by trump and his racist horde of monsters. Is the Democratic Party just going to sit back and let it happen? At what point are they going to start screaming and do something about it? They control the House, I'm not hearing that there is nothing they can do, nor are many progressives and black voters. I'm not hearing that bullshit while we are being attacked, brutalized, and murdered at will.

Republicans don't give a rat's ass about rules, decorum, form, or tradition. They will break any rule, any law, that stands in their way of getting what they want. Moderate democrats think the fight is in the courtroom, but the fight is in the streets and if moderates just sit back and give limp speeches I predict they will lose this election again ... and if democrats can't beat a seriously weakened trump with a plethora of his own party standing against him., then what the fuck good are they? Obama can't save black people nor this nation with eloquent speeches. Centrists and moderates are weak and shit .. always have been. It's why I left the party in the first place. African-Americans are not going to vote for trump or republicans in substantial numbers, but they not for for weak and hapless democrats either at a time when what is needed in this election is an energized base.

COPS BEAT A HANDCUFFED MAN FOR 6 MINUTES FOR WALKING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE STREET

In case you're wondering, the cops got off free with no charges

They should have. They were doing their duty. Don't fight cops. Don't resist arrest.

WE ARE AT WAR

If you want a fucking war, you WILL lose.

 

[Into the Night]

I don't believe in the racism narrative, so I'm just going to skip over all that.

What I will say is that last time it was Progressives who cost Hillary the election because they refused to vote for the lesser evil. Yes, Trump had Russia and the Electoral College helping him, but Democrats have still been able to win when there is high turn out.
My prediction is that Progressives will throw another tantrum this time and refuse to vote for Biden.

There was high turn out in 2016. The President is elected by the Electoral College. Russia cannot interfere with elections, did not interfere with elections, and your continuing attempt to link Russians with Trump is just fake news and lies.

 

[anonymoose]

Imagine if you were black and had done the exact same thing you did in the French Quarter? Chances are you would be dead.

I hope you're not insinuating that chances are a black guy would resist or drive away and not comply in any way. I did not try to drive off . Total acquiescence on my part although I was mostly scared they weren't actually cops.

There is absolutely no question that cops .. especially white cops do not treat Black people with the same regard they treat you or other white people. No question about that whatsoever.

Assuming that's true, even more reason to comply. It's common sense if you value your life.

Black cops interact with Black citizens as much if not more than white cops. This is particularly true in areas with higher densities of black people in black cities. Yet, seemingly the majority of egregious cases of police murder and brutality involve white cops.

And to be honest I don't know what the solution is. Law enforcement is necessary in a civilized society. Even one of the anatifa in Kenosha was heard in the vid where the guy was shot in the head to 'get the police'. Oh the irony.
Blacks make up about 12.7% of the population. If the % of blacks on a police force were proportional and only black cops respond to incidents involving only blacks and only white cops respond to incidents involving only whites, would that work? I kinda doubt it.
Like I said, I don't know what the solution is.
I know I'd never want to be a cop. FFS, I'm a golf course marshal this summer and I'll never do it again once the season is over in mid Oct. (latest) , after the abuse I've taken trying to get golfers to play a normal pace

 

[anonymoose]

One path forward would be a police outreach towards hiring more minority officers.

They certainly don't discriminate. Fact is, who the eff wants to be a cop? What type of people do they attract? Not all are bad but I'd think the profession attracts more authoritarian types. Derek Chauvin was a documented asshole to whites. I could never be one as I'm non-confrontational. I don't even like being a golf course marshal but it was a good little experiment to make me appreciate my education and the opportunities it gave me.

 

[blackascoal]

I hope you're not insinuating that chances are a black guy would resist or drive away and not comply in any way. I did not try to drive off . Total acquiescence on my part although I was mostly scared they weren't actually cops. Assuming that's true, even more reason to comply. It's common sense if you value your life.
And to be honest I don't know what the solution is. Law enforcement is necessary in a civilized society. Even one of the anatifa in Kenosha was heard in the vid where the guy was shot in the head to 'get the police'. Oh the irony.
Blacks make up about 12.7% of the population. If the % of blacks on a police force were proportional and only black cops respond to incidents involving only blacks and only white cops respond to incidents involving only whites, would that work? I kinda doubt it.
Like I said, I don't know what the solution is.
I know I'd never want to be a cop. FFS, I'm a golf course marshal this summer and I'll never do it again once the season is over in mid Oct. (latest) , after the abuse I've taken trying to get golfers to play a normal pace

I’m suggesting that just the act of running to your car, just as you did would have gotten you shot or killed.

 

[TTQ64]

TTQ: "a white boy murdered 2 people and walked right past the police with the illegal weaponhe just used why was he not arrested? be specific."
Jack: I would guess they didn't know he just killed two people. He's been arrested.

TTQ: "i guess an unarmed black man walking AWAY from a fuckin kop is more dangerous....."
Jack: He wasn't 'shot while walking away', ... he was shot while 'attempting to get in his car and leave the scene or attempting to retrieve a weapon'. THAT will be the Police response. NOT a REAL SMART move on the Black guy's part.

stop being a coward................say blacks wont listen to kops,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we have no rights we must obey even if we'vedone nothing wrong
like i keep saying...................you people are the problem

 

[RB 60]

I have no interest in a pissing contest with any right winger on this question. If that’s what you’re looking for simply believe whatever you want. I don’t care. I will however address your more civilly stated questions as long as they stay civilly stated.

How much does justice cost? I’m not talking about reparations. Justice costs nothing. The justice of demanding that all citizens are treated fairly and with respect in any encounters with police, and that these same citizens are protected by the law against rogue, iolent, and racist cops who break the law in the execution of their duties under penalty of prosecution and incarceration. When deadly force is used, under penalty of death when found guilty by independent panels of elected citizens. Simply put, a demand for Raif and equal treatment for black Americans which does not exist today, even after being American for over 400 years. How much do you think that costs you? It doesn’t cost you anything, not one nickel. You have no power and no authority to grant anything, so the justice we seek must flow from the American system of Justus. There is justice, then there is Justus.

For African Americans, freedom, justice, and equality has never been given. It must be demanded. That has been true from the moment we sfwooed on these shores and it remains true to this day. If you don’t know these all to obvious truths, then I’m talking to a blind man about about things he is incapable of seeing. An absolute waste of time and an excercise in futility

Based on your posts that I’ve read through the years, I’m pretty sure that you have no interest in a discussion about systematic racism that you can’t see, nor am I interested in discussing it with the blind. My intent was to have this discussion with people who can at least see it.

You whine, bitch and moan for justice. Floyd's killer is facing 2 murder counts as well as others. Shut the hell up until justice is served. If there's enough evidence, that cop will hang.
So will the back shooter face charges if they are warranted.
I've said before, police should police themselves, but some of your tribe is asking for the death of all cops, that cannot happen. That will not happen.

Of course you have no interest in addressing me. To hell with your "systematic racism," what ever that bullshit is. Through the years? HA! You've just been a coward, and continue to be.

You want a war? Bring it to the small towns and rural areas. You will wish you thought it out a little better.

 

[anonymoose]

I’m suggesting that just the act of running to your car, just as you did would have gotten you shot or killed.

Then you are free to add to this list.

What is your solution? Micawber suggests an outreach to attract more minorities on police forces. Great idea, wish I had thought of that. Sounds a little pie in the sky.
Complaining is not a solution. Protesting is not a solution. Rioting is not a solution.


At least I'm honest in admitting I see no real solution that would satisfy everybody.

 

[TTQ64]

they didnt know he just murdered 2 people.................if that was a black man with a gun walking down the street.......he'd be dead