Venezuela Referendum: Chavez Wins Vote To End Term Limits

[KingCondanomation]

ROFLMAO.... yeah, integrity... thats what having complete control of the media, the military and the major revenue source for your country means... integrity.

We'll see how popular el dictator is once people realize that oil prices are now under $40 per barrell and el dictator can no longer pay for all his promises.

Yeah bingo. The only reason he even got away with the amount of socialism he did was because of the oil price at over $100 a barrel, now it's crashed down to $40 PLUS oil exports are now all the way up to representing 90% of Venezuela's export revenues (as he chased and killed off so much other business) and amazingly he's actually talking about expanding his revolution.
This is the train wreck of the world waiting to happen.

 

[charver]

This is the train wreck of the world waiting to happen.

Considering the current state of the world economy and where it all started that is some statement.

 

[Topspin]

Bac is ok with socialist. Ontrolling the media. Wonder if he likes China's methods as well. What violence!! Are you 10

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yeah, and Saddam Hussein really did win all those elections with 99% of the vote you can tell because some people went around celebrating after those "elections"...

That's a gross exageration. Hugo Chavez is no Saddam or Strongman. He is a legitimately elected leader. No matter how much the US disliked his socialist policies we have to respect the democratic decisions of the Venezuelian people.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Mott, you must ignore the violence when it's done by socialist.
I'd have guest you were rich BAC, most limosine socialist democrats are. LOL

That's a non-sequiter. What about the violence done by capitalist and right wingers? There's a far cry one hell of a lot more of that in the world. Always has been.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I think he's actually saying that the vote wasn't controlled and was completely Democratic in response to you, and never mentioned violence, and the conversation never got to violence until you just desperately brought it up right now to avoid the point of the argument, even though Chavez is in no way using violence in Venezula to maintain his presidency -

but whatever.

That's pretty much my point. As much as those in the US despise Hugo's policies he is a legitimate and democratically elected leader. I have to respect their decision if I don't neccessarily respect their choice. But who the hell are we to talk after 8 years of Bush. How is Hugo more extreme than Bush? What countries that were not a clear and present danger to Venezuela's national secirity did they invade and how many of those people did they kill?

 

[blackascoal]

ROFLMAO.... yeah, integrity... thats what having complete control of the media, the military and the major revenue source for your country means... integrity.

We'll see how popular el dictator is once people realize that oil prices are now under $40 per barrell and el dictator can no longer pay for all his promises.

Yeah, what a dupe, eh?

Imagine him using profits from his nations resources to enrich the lives of his people. What the fuck was he thinking and doesn't he know the capitailst way is to use that money to enrich your own life?

I mean c'mon, what was he thinking in improving healthcare, education, creating food co-ops, and computer centers, when he could have been robbing and raping the national treasury as any good capitialist would do.

Obviously Venezuelans are stupid in supporting a man who has the quality of their lives at heart .. while we brilliant people here in America elect politicians who know what to do with our money .. give it away to people who are already rich. How dumb they must be in nationalizing their industries that allows citizens to reap the benefits of nationalization .. thus they pay 28 cents for gas .. while we brilliant people here in America happily pour trillions of dollars into private industries so they can tell us to go fuck ourselves.

And what dopes they must be not having their elections privately owned like we do. After all, who needs to know if your vote was counted. AND, I bet they didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on their elections like we brilliant Americans do. If money doesn't determine who the winner will be, how will they know the best person won?

I can see sir that you are a real American.

 

[blackascoal]

That's pretty much my point. As much as those in the US despise Hugo's policies he is a legitimate and democratically elected leader. I have to respect their decision if I don't neccessarily respect their choice. But who the hell are we to talk after 8 years of Bush. How is Hugo more extreme than Bush? What countries that were not a clear and present danger to Venezuela's national secirity did they invade and how many of those people did they kill?

Well said indeed.

 

[blackascoal]

Bac is ok with socialist. Ontrolling the media. Wonder if he likes China's methods as well. What violence!! Are you 10

You may like smoking the herb my brother, but you're no Rastafarian, You're pure capitalist apologizer to the bone.

You live in a coutry where the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen ..where republicans stormed an election center in Florida and demanded/forced a change in the vote .. and they got it.

I imagine that it's enough just trying to think for yourself without the burden of trying to think for me .. so if you need to know, there are many socialist models, as there are different models of democracy. The model of socialism I believe in, democratic socialism, does not believe in state control of the media, however, the media belongs to Americans, not private industry, thus equitable sharing of the media and dissemination of information IS something I believe in.

Rastafarian? .. not hardly my brother.

 

[Topspin]

you must be smoking crack BAC
You can have your third world dictatorships, I'll take Obama and a fixed wall street. LOFL

 

[blackascoal]

Yeah bingo. The only reason he even got away with the amount of socialism he did was because of the oil price at over $100 a barrel, now it's crashed down to $40 PLUS oil exports are now all the way up to representing 90% of Venezuela's export revenues (as he chased and killed off so much other business) and amazingly he's actually talking about expanding his revolution.
This is the train wreck of the world waiting to happen.

NEWSFLASH: In case you've been off visiting the moon, the train wreck that is crippling the world ain't socialism by ANY stretch of the imagination and it didn't come from Venezuela .. and the world ain't mad at Hugo Chavez.

That train wreck is called runaway capitialism, that cancerous disease came from America, and exploded under an American president.

How's our export business doing?

How about manufacturing and finance?

So much easier to look out the window and point fingers at other people and nations than it is to look in the goddamn mirror and see the problems with us, eh?

 

[blackascoal]

That's a non-sequiter. What about the violence done by capitalist and right wingers? There's a far cry one hell of a lot more of that in the world. Always has been.

Gross exaggerations is pretty much all they have .. but whatever you do, don't show them a mirror.

 

[Damocles]

It wasn't a statement on this election, it was a statement of the measure of "democratic" being 'no term limits'. This isn't exactly the only thing we should measure by.

That's pretty much my point. As much as those in the US despise Hugo's policies he is a legitimate and democratically elected leader. I have to respect their decision if I don't neccessarily respect their choice. But who the hell are we to talk after 8 years of Bush. How is Hugo more extreme than Bush? What countries that were not a clear and present danger to Venezuela's national secirity did they invade and how many of those people did they kill?

My point wasn't that Chavez did something, only that such rules do not mean that all elections are valid or "more democratic".

Chavez wins valid elections, and I believe that people will regret it. It is their choice though. I have no criticism of Chavez, just the idea that this alone makes it "more democratic".

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yeah, what a dupe, eh?

Imagine him using profits from his nations resources to enrich the lives of his people. What the fuck was he thinking and doesn't he know the capitailst way is to use that money to enrich your own life?

I mean c'mon, what was he thinking in improving healthcare, education, creating food co-ops, and computer centers, when he could have been robbing and raping the national treasury as any good capitialist would do.

Obviously Venezuelans are stupid in supporting a man who has the quality of their lives at heart .. while we brilliant people here in America elect politicians who know what to do with our money .. give it away to people who are already rich. How dumb they must be in nationalizing their industries that allows citizens to reap the benefits of nationalization .. thus they pay 28 cents for gas .. while we brilliant people here in America happily pour trillions of dollars into private industries so they can tell us to go fuck ourselves.

And what dopes they must be not having their elections privately owned like we do. After all, who needs to know if your vote was counted. AND, I bet they didn't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on their elections like we brilliant Americans do. If money doesn't determine who the winner will be, how will they know the best person won?

I can see sir that you are a real American.

What a load of crap.... yeah, they didn't spend as much money on elections... because Chavez simply nationalized the media, the military and the oil industry and forced them all to support this amendment with free advertising for him. Yeah... thats what we should do. Let one man control everything.

Another load of crap... their healthcare, education, co-ops etc are not free. If you think he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart rather than because it puts him in power for life you are more foolish than I ever would have expected. It is the same crap that Castro supporters continue to proclaim. He simply bought votes by promising the world to the poor in his country.

They pay $0.28 per gallon because they subsidize the shit out of gas. There is no way... none... that gas can be produced for $.28. None. Just because they aren't paying for it at the pump doesn't mean they aren't paying more for it. That is simply more idiocy from the socialists.

As for our system... the non-stop idiocy proclaiming that we only give tax cuts to the rich is idiotic. You cannot and should not give tax breaks to people who do not pay income taxes. The tax burden of the lower 50% has continued to decrease.... even under the idiot Bush. So of course tax cuts are going to see more dollars go to the top 50%... they are the ones paying the taxes.

 

[KingCondanomation]

NEWSFLASH: In case you've been off visiting the moon, the train wreck that is crippling the world ain't socialism by ANY stretch of the imagination and it didn't come from Venezuela .. and the world ain't mad at Hugo Chavez.

I think you missed what I meant. I don't mean train wreck as in what would affect the rest of the world, I mean train wreck as in which country by itself is ready to have major problems.
They are heavily dependent on oil revenue and a high price for oil, once that collapses they have nothing really left to do but a largescale cutback of all the social welfare he put in.
Let's face it, it's not like a private property confiscating socialist is going to attract or encourage a lot of new investment or business.

That train wreck is called runaway capitialism, that cancerous disease came from America, and exploded under an American president.

Is that what you call the largest social welfare program increase in the Pill Bill since the 60's? The largest ever federal education increase with NCLB. The massive regulation initiative of Sarbanes-Oxley?
It's not capitalism that has grown.

How's our export business doing?
How about manufacturing and finance?

Better, but I think you miss my point, we are more balanced (as are most countries) and do not depend so heavily on ONE source of export revenue (ie: oil).

So much easier to look out the window and point fingers at other people and nations than it is to look in the goddamn mirror and see the problems with us, eh?

I've mentioned many times the over spending problems we have and agreed with you on the problems we have with warring and civil liberties restrictions.

 

[blackascoal]

What a load of crap.... yeah, they didn't spend as much money on elections... because Chavez simply nationalized the media, the military and the oil industry and forced them all to support this amendment with free advertising for him. Yeah... thats what we should do. Let one man control everything.

Another load of crap... their healthcare, education, co-ops etc are not free. If you think he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart rather than because it puts him in power for life you are more foolish than I ever would have expected. It is the same crap that Castro supporters continue to proclaim. He simply bought votes by promising the world to the poor in his country.

They pay $0.28 per gallon because they subsidize the shit out of gas. There is no way... none... that gas can be produced for $.28. None. Just because they aren't paying for it at the pump doesn't mean they aren't paying more for it. That is simply more idiocy from the socialists.

As for our system... the non-stop idiocy proclaiming that we only give tax cuts to the rich is idiotic. You cannot and should not give tax breaks to people who do not pay income taxes. The tax burden of the lower 50% has continued to decrease.... even under the idiot Bush. So of course tax cuts are going to see more dollars go to the top 50%... they are the ones paying the taxes.

Is today like National Bizzaro Day?

Everything you said here was totally removed from reality.

You completely missed my point that money controls elections and winners in America. It went right over your head and instead you dove into some ideological bullshit that ignores the fact that elections in Venezuela are fair, as evidenced even by comments from the opposition. I can provide those comments for you if you don't know how to find them yourself.

Their elections are fair and provide far more integrity than American elections, as evidenced by a great many sources, which I can provide for you if you don't know how to find them yourself.

Here's a brain-teaser for you .. about 15 months ago Chavez tried to pass the exact same measure .. it failed. Chavez was in power just as he is today. See if you can find where your point is ridiculous.

Here's why the measure passed this time ..
1. It was the only measure they were voting on, unlike last time.
2. He wisely included extending it to all politicians, thus virtually all politicians were foir it and actively campaigned for it.
3. Heavy media saturation .. which is EXACTLY what MONEY would buy in America. State-control in Venezuela is essentially the same as money control in America where money is the state.

Even with all of that, the measure passed bu 9%. People had no fear of voting NO.

And all that crap about tax cuts .. how's that working out for you? More importantly, how's it working out for the country? Bush passed the biggest tax cuts in history .. prior to the even bigger tax cuts in the so-called stimulus plan. Yet, American wages, savings, and upwartd mobility didn't budge an inch. In fact, they haven't budged in a generation.

And since you mentioned Castro .. he did the same thing in Cuba and dramatically improved the lives of average Cubans. They have some of the best doctors in the world and their infant mortality and literacy rates are better than ours. Wasn't even close before Castro came to power.

Trust me, it's a lot of fun debating socialism with people like you my brother.

 

[KingCondanomation]

Chavez has violated civil liberties and is no peace loving figure. He has repeatedly threatened and turned a blind eye to thuggery against students who oppose him.

"Student leaders say Chávez's offensive against them is a sign of his desperation, since polls show the "yes" and "no" votes in a dead heat. "It's the government that wants to make us fall into violence, not the other way around," insists Mejia. "We're the ones being threatened and harassed." He points to a phone call between two students that was recorded by the government and broadcast on state-run media, as if to show how closely the opposition was being tracked. More disturbing, however, is the violence allegedly visited on anti-Chávez students by pro-Chávez thugs like La Piedrita, a sort of urban paramilitary group that Chávez has denounced but which the students complain hasn't been restrained. Last week, for example, the car of anti-Chávez student leader Ricardo Sanchez was torched in Caracas. (No one was hurt.)"
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1876066,00.html?iid=tsmodule

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Is today like National Bizzaro Day?

Everything you said here was totally removed from reality.

You completely missed my point that money controls elections and winners in America. It went right over your head and instead you dove into some ideological bullshit that ignores the fact that elections in Venezuela are fair, as evidenced even by comments from the opposition. I can provide those comments for you if you don't know how to find them yourself.

Their elections are fair and provide far more integrity than American elections, as evidenced by a great many sources, which I can provide for you if you don't know how to find them yourself.

Here's a brain-teaser for you .. about 15 months ago Chavez tried to pass the exact same measure .. it failed. Chavez was in power just as he is today. See if you can find where your point is ridiculous.

Here's why the measure passed this time ..
1. It was the only measure they were voting on, unlike last time.
2. He wisely included extending it to all politicians, thus virtually all politicians were foir it and actively campaigned for it.
3. Heavy media saturation .. which is EXACTLY what MONEY would buy in America. State-control in Venezuela is essentially the same as money control in America where money is the state.

Even with all of that, the measure passed bu 9%. People had no fear of voting NO.

And all that crap about tax cuts .. how's that working out for you? More importantly, how's it working out for the country? Bush passed the biggest tax cuts in history .. prior to the even bigger tax cuts in the so-called stimulus plan. Yet, American wages, savings, and upwartd mobility didn't budge an inch. In fact, they haven't budged in a generation.

And since you mentioned Castro .. he did the same thing in Cuba and dramatically improved the lives of average Cubans. They have some of the best doctors in the world and their infant mortality and literacy rates are better than ours. Wasn't even close before Castro came to power.

Trust me, it's a lot of fun debating socialism with people like you my brother.

No, I did not miss your point. You missed mine. You dont need to spend money on elections when you control the media, the oil industry and every aspect of the government. You simply have to force them all to support your agenda.

I am sure the opposition feels everything is fair... I am sure there are plenty of quotes that you can provide. After all, we know Chavez wouldn't do anything to anyone who criticizes him. I mean Chavez wouldn't kick anyone out of his country for criticizing the process would he? Oh wait, he would. I wonder what he would do to opposition from someone within the country? Probably take after Castro there too... hire a butcher like Che and let him murder people in cold blood and then pretend it was a 'revolution'.

As for 15 months ago vs now... Chavez didn't have the control that he now has... like I said... you want one person to have control over everything. You want a dictator. Soon we will see exactly what we see in Cuba... proclamations on how great their healthcare is because it is 'free' yet people doing anything and everything to escape the misery.

Side note... the tax cuts are not what caused the problems we are seeing. It was idiotic policies designed to force lending to anyone and everyone all so 'more people could own homes'. That is not capitalism BAC... that is government intereference. After that, capitalism did indeed run wild and loose and we are paying the price for it now. But this all began with the idiots in DC.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And since you mentioned Castro .. he did the same thing in Cuba and dramatically improved the lives of average Cubans. They have some of the best doctors in the world and their infant mortality and literacy rates are better than ours. Wasn't even close before Castro came to power.

Trust me, it's a lot of fun debating socialism with people like you my brother.

Missed that last part.... dramatically improved their lives? Really? Then tell me.... why do they still try to ESCAPE? Why do they have to ESCAPE on doors and make-shift life rafts? If it is so great why is that BAC?

Tell me... are their infant mortality rates calculated in the same manner as ours? I would guess not.... but I am sure a good socialist like you knows.

Some of the best doctors in the world???? LMAO.... is that why so many of the worlds elite go to Cuba for treatments?

 

[blackascoal]

I think you missed what I meant. I don't mean train wreck as in what would affect the rest of the world, I mean train wreck as in which country by itself is ready to have major problems.
They are heavily dependent on oil revenue and a high price for oil, once that collapses they have nothing really left to do but a largescale cutback of all the social welfare he put in.
Let's face it, it's not like a private property confiscating socialist is going to attract or encourage a lot of new investment or business.

What I believe is that the socialist model is better than the foreign controlled system it replaced, but it ain''t perfect by nay means. I also do not agree with the measure to remove term-limits, but I understand where it comes from and I understand why some would agree to it .. particularly in a country that has experienced foreign control of their government against the vest interests of its citizens.

Their dependance on oil is a dependance on the only resource they have, but that is hardly unique in oil-producing countries. The problems they face from their dependance on oil would be the exact same problems they would face if they were a democracy. The difference is that under socialism, he people get a piece of the pie and all the equity is not owned by corporations or the rich .. which includes Chavez himself. Like Castro, neither of them have taken advantage of their positions to amass personal wealth.

Is that what you call the largest social welfare program increase in the Pill Bill since the 60's? The largest ever federal education increase with NCLB. The massive regulation initiative of Sarbanes-Oxley?
It's not capitalism that has grown.

I beg to differ my wise brother. It is the runaway mechanisms of capitaliism that have brought us to this point. The few out to make untold wealth at the expense of many .. which we call good business. We've been living on imaginary wealth. Every nefarious ponzi scheme ever dreamt of was borne to life and Sarbanes-Oxley amounted to nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

Better, but I think you miss my point, we are more balanced (as are most countries) and do not depend so heavily on ONE source of export revenue (ie: oil).

We are blessed not to be more balanced, at the same time cursed not to have more domestic oil. But even with our blessing, we are dependant on other countries to buy our products, as we are dependant on countries like Venezuela to provide us with their oil. My point is that there is a better way for that relationship to be served and it starts with mutual respect and awareness of our respective dependance.

I've mentioned many times the over spending problems we have and agreed with you on the problems we have with warring and civil liberties restrictions.

That I believe is the real point.

The best thing that could have come out of the stimulus plan was Medicare for every American .. regardless of what its called. many of the systems in America are failing and we should be wise enough to explore every avenue of preserving good life for future generations of Americans.