US drug war has met none of its goals

I do not fear it won't feel good, I know damn well it would feel good.... so would huffing this can of Dust-Off next to the computer! I don't need to escape reality that bad! Some people do!

Geezez! Why do you insist on being thick headed? The point is that you weighed the benefits and drawbacks and determined that it would not make you "feel good" on the whole, not just for the duration of your high, but in the long run. You determined it would not feel good. There is no reason that maxim has to be a short sighted one and when it is, it is bad. But in the longer view, there is nothing wrong at all with it.

The risk of stroke is considerably higher among smokers, it is because of what I said. blah blah

So, you can't even prove correlation. You seem to be arguing that we should lump all smokers together regardless of what they are smoking. Sorry, that's not valid. The chemicals in cigarettes are different than those in marijuana and far more toxic.

Please show me where I argued that ANYTHING is "unacceptable?" I'm not seeing that! Probably because I never said it! You like to LIE AND DISTORT when you are losing the argument, and that is typical from you.

Your previous post... Well i can guarantee they didn't tell him using drugs was okay or acceptable.

You have repeated this idea numerous times throughout the thread.

Far more people die of chronic drug abuse than have ever died from eating beef.

Yeah, from alcohol, cigarettes, cocaine, pain meds, etc. I said, marijuana vs bad diet. There is little chance that anyone could attribute a death to which cut of meat you ate. That would be like me saying, prove that there is danger from smoking just buds and no leaves.

Again, where have I said that I thought making pot illegal was a good idea?blah blah blah

You seemed to imply that beef prohibition would be harder and more likely to fail. I even asked you the question, though I failed to use a question mark. No one created an argument for you. If that is not what you meant, okay.

Because we don't, as a society, glorify the misuse of guns, the way we glorify drug abuse! If we had people going around saying... It's perfectly okay to shoot your neighbor if they walk across your yard, or if they play the TV too loud... then, I might feel differently about it.

I knew you would be able to find some bullshit rationalization to maintain your hypocrisy. :good4u:

First off, are you kidding? Your arguments are so unbelievably absurd. We have entire movie and video game genres where bullets fly at absurd rates. Put that against maybe a dozen Cheech and Chong movies and Half Baked.

I have not argued that drug abuse is good. Where is this widespread glorification of drug abuse. Hell, even in Half Baked, Dave gave up mary jane to get Mary Jane.

The problem is that you see all drug use as abuse. Drug use is glorified and rightfully so.

As I said before, there is a line... It's fine to use drugs to deal with a legitimate pain (in some cases), under the supervision and administration of a medical doctor who knows what he is doing. That isn't what the drug abuse problem in America is about at all, it's a strawman you keep wanting to throw out to rationalize and justify abusing drugs, and remain in complete denial of the problem.

Nonsense. I don't need to go to a doctor everytime I take an aspirin, Advil or some Pepto Bismol. Frankly, I don't see why I need a prescription, though I would not object to the requirement that I seek counsel of a qualified doctor. But it does not really matter, because it is easy to find a doctor that will give you whatever you want for a buck. We have turned many of them into drug dealers by requiring their consent.

Marijuana is on the level of an aspirin in terms of its dangers.

Again, I haven't talked about me or my own pleasures and indulgences here, I've merely introduced a perspective that no one wants to look at, and had rather remain in denial of, obviously. It doesn't matter what kind of indulgences or pleasures I partake in, that isn't the debate. Until we stop pretending this is all okay and acceptable in society, we can't start to deal with the REAL problem. As long as we can use drugs and alcohol as our crutch, and excuse away the abuse of these things, as if it is some 'right' of personal choice, it's impossible to have a fundamental discussion about the REAL problem, what causes the drug abuse, what makes people seek that outlet in the first place... We have to solve THAT before we solve the drug problem, and we simply CAN'T solve that with the mindset you bring to the table.

We can't solve it. Utopia is not an option and you ignorantly want to place all blame based on partisan bs. There will always be people who misuse drugs just like there are always going to be people that misuse their guns. We can minimize it, but not with the idiotic tee-totaler attitude that all drug use is abuse and human desire for pleasure or even escape is inherently evil. There is nothing wrong with pleasure or escape in and of themselves, just like there is nothing wrong with having a good steak every once in awhile. Just don't overdo it.
 
Innovation in better providing services to the rich.

One of the things I was thinking about in innovation was distance learning. You might argue that poor kids don't have computers or internet, but do they have more access to reliable transportation, which is far more expensive? If we bring down costs it will help all. The rich people are out in front either way and probably even moreso with higher costs.
 
And I disagree that extremely addictive drugs like heroin and meth should be legal.

I have read case studies of people who use heroin responsibly and sparingly. Not saying I would try it or that it is common. Personally, I fear I would abuse it so I don't do it. Same reason I am not drinking alcohol. I am content with the occasional bit of marijuana.

But just because it is a bad choice for me does not mean it is a bad choice for all. Different strokes for different folks. Don't use Viagra if you have a heart condition. Individual results may vary. That is the nature of drugs. They can be great for one person and bad for the next.

Besides, in a legal market people tend to choose safer drugs.
 
There is little chance that anyone could attribute a death to which cut of meat you ate.

Hmmm, actually if you choked on it or it was contaminated they could. I bet more people die from choking on beef and contaminated beef than die from marijuana. You take a greater risk by seeking pleasure from steak than I do from marijuana. Hedonistic, short sighted hypocrite.
 
And if we outlawed beef what do you think that would do to the safety of beef? It would make it FAR more dangerous.

Prohibition is stupid, ESPECIALLY if your primary concern is health. But that is not the primary concern. The primary concern is hypocritical moralizing that says your pleasure seeking is okay and someone else's is not.
 
We can't solve it. Utopia is not an option and you ignorantly want to place all blame based on partisan bs. There will always be people who misuse drugs just like there are always going to be people that misuse their guns.

You're right! We certainly can't solve it with attitudes like yours! It's impossible to solve a problem when you are only focused on the symptom, that has been my point all along. I am not partisan in blaming ALL OF SOCIETY for the problem, I think it's a very fair assessment. I put the blame on those who want to criminalize pot as well as those who want to legalize pot. I put the blame on those who want to say it's acceptable to do drugs, as well as those who want to pick and choose what drugs are acceptable. It's our culture, it's the way we have been programmed through the years, to think it's okay to escape our lives through chemical stimulation, when we know there is something inherently wrong with that.

You keep throwing up your strawmen... Guns... Once was a time, people didn't have to register firearms, and children could own them! We had a little problem with people using their guns irresponsibly, and we had to change our nonchalant attitudes about this. We started regulating gun ownership, documenting who owned guns, restricting them to only adults who were more responsible. It didn't end all gun mishaps, but it did dramatically decrease the tragic results. Once was a time, we had a problem with people driving under the influence... many people adopted your pot viewpoint... oh, it's okay because SOME people can drive just fine under the influence! Years passed, and people kept being killed on the road by drunk drivers, until we finally started addressing the problem and did something about it. DUI laws didn't eliminate all drunk driving, but it is significantly less than it once was. What it took was for society to change their perspectives, to stop denying the problem, to start doing things to effectively cut down on the incidents, and eventually it started working to do just that. As long as we excused it and lived in denial of the problem, we didn't fix it, we didn't stop it, and the problem continued to snowball and get worse, until we changed our attitude.
 
dixtard blames everyone those that don't use and those that do. What a fucking moron.

as he says pot if your not driving is about as dangerous as asprin.
 
You're right! blah blah blah

Go choke on a steak and continue in your permanent vacation from reality, Ditzy. Neither of the problems you mention have been solved and neither of them were minimized with your idiotic tee-totaler approach. Instead we approached them by trying to promote responsible use. Abstinence is fine too, but if you are gonna do it, be safe.

It is acceptable to do drugs. But, when you develop heart problems from your beef addiction, pretend it is not.
 
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Since you brought it up... Do you support DUI charges for any presence of alcohol in the blood? The status quo is at a level that indicates it is okay to drink and drive, just do not drink too much and drive. The tee-totaler approach, pushed by MADD, would be a mistake.
 
Go choke on a steak and continue in your permanent vacation from reality, Ditzy. Neither of the problems you mention have been solved and neither of them were minimized with your idiotic tee-totaler approach. Instead we approached them by trying to promote responsible use. Abstinence is fine too, but if you are gonna do it, be safe.

It is acceptable to do drugs. But, when you develop heart problems from your beef addiction, pretend it is not.

I think anyone but a complete moron, realizes the problem with gun mishaps and drunk driving, were greatly diminished when we tackled the problem and not the symptom. We didn't outlaw alcohol or guns, we didn't legalize drunk driving or unregistered gun ownership, and simply advise against misuse.

You keep wanting to divert from the topic and throw out straw men! I'm sorry, but I have better things to do with my time than argue with an idiot. You've obviously made your mind up on this, and nothing I am ever going to say is going to change your mind. The only point I tried to make is, we aren't presently addressing the problem itself, we are chasing the symptom. We can't address the problem because too many nitwits are in denial of the problem and don't want to face it. You had rather continue your little war, keep spewing rhetoric, keep pushing for complete and absolute idiocy, and denying we have a problem with drug abuse in America. On the other side, the other idiots want to ban and outlaw drugs, but the drugs are not the problem, they are the symptom of the problem. Neither side in this debate is dealing with the fundamental root problem!
 
No we did not outlaw guns or alcohol. We pushed responsible use. I am sorry, your own examples prove you wrong.

I have made no straw man arguments.

And you are right nitwits are in denial about the problem. You are one of the nitwits. The problem is not use, but irresponsible use. You proved yourself wrong, Ditzy. I just pointed out the truth behind your examples.

You going to answer the question about DUI or try to cowardly pretend that you have not painted yourself into the corner?
 
No we did not outlaw guns or alcohol. We pushed responsible use. I am sorry, your own examples prove you wrong.

I have made no straw man arguments.

And you are right nitwits are in denial about the problem. You are one of the nitwits. The problem is not use, but irresponsible use. You proved yourself wrong, Ditzy. I just pointed out the truth behind your examples.

You going to answer the question about DUI or try to cowardly pretend that you have not painted yourself into the corner?

It's irresponsible to seek escape from the realities of life through abusing alcohol and drugs. That is what we need to be teaching, instead, you want to teach... if it feels good, do it! It is irresponsible to ignore the reasons people find to become dependent on drugs and alcohol, and again, this is something we should be teaching people, instead of lobbying for making drugs either legal or illegal.

When you stand on the side of truth and honesty, there is no corner to paint yourself into.
 
It's irresponsible to seek escape from the realities of life through abusing alcohol and drugs. That is what we need to be teaching, instead, you want to teach... if it feels good, do it! It is irresponsible to ignore the reasons people find to become dependent on drugs and alcohol, and again, this is something we should be teaching people, instead of lobbying for making drugs either legal or illegal.

When you stand on the side of truth and honesty, there is no corner to paint yourself into.
As long as all we are doing is putting them in prison that's what we are doing. Just happily ignoring reality and pretending that we are effective when all we do is send them to a place where they learn to be effective criminals along with their poor habit of drug use.
 
As long as all we are doing is putting them in prison that's what we are doing. Just happily ignoring reality and pretending that we are effective when all we do is send them to a place where they learn to be effective criminals along with their poor habit of drug use.

Correct! We are completely ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, and focusing on gorilla poop! We can't ever solve the drug abuse problems by imprisoning drug users or suppliers, and we can't ever solve it by denying there is a problem with addiction and making it more available to the public through legalization. Neither approach is going to ever solve the drug addiction problem in America. THAT IS MY POINT!
 
Correct! We are completely ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, and focusing on gorilla poop! We can't ever solve the drug abuse problems by imprisoning drug users or suppliers, and we can't ever solve it by denying there is a problem with addiction and making it more available to the public through legalization. Neither approach is going to ever solve the drug addiction problem in America. THAT IS MY POINT!

You're right dixie. These fascists don;t want to sove the problems of humanity. They will legalize pot, and then probably add something to health care fascism such that actually using it will void your insurance. So. They're just setting traps to justify murder against the populace, like they always do.
 
Correct! We are completely ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, and focusing on gorilla poop! We can't ever solve the drug abuse problems by imprisoning drug users or suppliers, and we can't ever solve it by denying there is a problem with addiction and making it more available to the public through legalization. Neither approach is going to ever solve the drug addiction problem in America. THAT IS MY POINT!
You can, however solve the problem of Gorilla poop in the living room by moving the Gorilla out in the open, maybe even to a zoo.

When we worked to continue "prohibition" gangs roamed the streets shooting each other up in drivebys. Today, instead of learning from something in our past we simply repeat history and believe that throwing yet more money at it is going to make everything just keen, we'll do it the "right way" this time....

Prohibition hasn't worked, it didn't work last time, it isn't working this time. It's ignorant to even try.
 
Just happily ignoring reality and pretending that we are effective when all we do is send them to a place where they learn to be effective criminals along with their poor habit of drug use.

Says another mind blinded by the perverted morality of asceticism. At least buddhists seem to be a little less hypocritical, but my knowledge of eastern religions is not as good as my knowledge of the western ones.

If you believe drug use is the problem, then WoD might be the best solution. It is certainly not the best solution for the problem of drug abuse.

You guys should go join the Scientologists. Maybe you can get on Oprah, jump around on a couch and spew nonsense about the evils of drugs.
 
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