US citizen executed during Israeli flotilla raid

charver said:
There are plenty of well respected non-Israeli judges out there. Get a panel together and bang...there you go.

In addition, if a US citizen was killed overseas wouldn't you expect the US authorities to launch their own investigations?
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Nice of you to show that you just wanted to use this thread to bitch and moan; because you really had nothing better to contribute, but I'll try to give you another chance to redeem your failing character and hopefully you can avoid repeating your non-answer.

I'll re-reiterate:

And who would you consider impartial enough to carry out this investigation??
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Nice of you to show that you just wanted to use this thread to bitch and moan; because you really had nothing better to contribute, but I'll try to give you another chance to redeem your failing character and hopefully you can avoid repeating your non-answer.

I'll re-reiterate:

And who would you consider impartial enough to carry out this investigation??
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I have merely asked 2 questions rather than "bitching and moaning".

I've given you an answer. Perhaps, you'd like to tell me what you'd like me to answer to save this rather tedious exchange from continuing.
 
Here's the deal charver, the nation of Israel is at war. Their enemy are Palestinians in Gaza and they are being supported by Hamas and Hezbollah, both well-known terrorist organizations. There is currently a blockade in place, to prevent shipments of weapons and military supplies into Gaza. You can scream and cry about international waters all you like, the Israelis have a right to defend themselves from certain attack.

You're whining because the Israelis won't release video from terrorists who were attacking them! If the terrorists on 9/11 had shot footage during their assault on NY and Washington, and the video somehow survived the crashes, would you have whined and moaned about those tapes being released as well? Did you cry for an independent investigation of that? Hey, maybe the terrorists were just bad pilots and flying into the buildings was purely accidental?
 
Dixie said:
Here's the deal charver, the nation of Israel is at war. Their enemy are Palestinians in Gaza and they are being supported by Hamas and Hezbollah, both well-known terrorist organizations. There is currently a blockade in place, to prevent shipments of weapons and military supplies into Gaza. You can scream and cry about international waters all you like, the Israelis have a right to defend themselves from certain attack.

You're whining because the Israelis won't release video from terrorists who were attacking them! If the terrorists on 9/11 had shot footage during their assault on NY and Washington, and the video somehow survived the crashes, would you have whined and moaned about those tapes being released as well? Did you cry for an independent investigation of that? Hey, maybe the terrorists were just bad pilots and flying into the buildings was purely accidental?
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Far from "whining", Dix, i'm just asking why they won't release the footage in its entirety. You've confidence in their arguments, their assurances of legality, the assurances that they were acting in self-defence. I don't know what happened, that's why i'd like the Israeli's to just prove everybody wrong by revealing all the evidence.

Why would you have a problem with that?
 
charver said:
Far from "whining", Dix, i'm just asking why they won't release the footage in its entirety. You've confidence in their arguments, their assurances of legality, the assurances that they were acting in self-defence. I don't know what happened, that's why i'd like the Israeli's to just prove everybody wrong by revealing all the evidence.

Why would you have a problem with that?
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I have a problem with it because I think they were fully justified in whatever action they took, the ship was attempting to violate their blockade. If someone was videoing themselves breaking into your home, and you subsequently shot them, would their video have any bearing on the matter at all? Would it justify their actions in any way? Would it somehow change your right to defend your home? I don't think it would, it is superficial and meaningless. The fact of the matter is, this so-called humanitarian ship, was in violation of the blockade, and the Israelis had the right to inspect the cargo. If they were legitimate humanitarian relief, why did they attack the Israelis and refuse to allow an inspection?
 
Dixie said:
I have a problem with it because I think they were fully justified in whatever action they took, the ship was attempting to violate their blockade. If someone was videoing themselves breaking into your home, and you subsequently shot them, would their video have any bearing on the matter at all? Would it justify their actions in any way? Would it somehow change your right to defend your home? I don't think it would, it is superficial and meaningless. The fact of the matter is, this so-called humanitarian ship, was in violation of the blockade, and the Israelis had the right to inspect the cargo. If they were legitimate humanitarian relief, why did they attack the Israelis and refuse to allow an inspection?
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Unfortunately, Dix, your opinion doesn't carry much weight when it comes to what is, or is not, legal in the realms of international law.

Like it or not there is a major dispute between the position Israel adopts with regard to the legality of the seizure itself, which is contingent on the legality of the Gaza blockade, and the position of a significant body of legal eagles, specialising in international law, who dispute Israel's and your certainty.
(that's a very long argument and i'm not going to get into writing that essay as 1. I'm off out shortly and 2. My keyboard would probably give up the ghost before i finished typing)

Anyway, that's kind of the reason many people and nations, who aren't the US or Israel, are calling for an independent and impartial inquiry. If they haven't breached any law then an inquiry would exonerate them entirely, no?

I don't know what happened on that ship. Apparently you do because you've seen some footage the Israelis chose to release. So far you've compared this to 9/11 and a home burglary without actually answering why the Israelis don't just release everything. This would surely exonerate them from charges of overreaction or brutality. It could only help their case.

What is so wrong about a policy of absolute openness and transparency?
 
Because the Israelis don't have to, that's why, charver. The plain truth is, the Israelis kicked everyone's ass over there in 1967, in a little more than a week, and they can pretty much do whatever they want to do in whatever water they want to do it in. Now you and the terror appeasers of the world can writhe and moan about it, you can pontificate all these intellectual points about legality and international law, but the Israelis have the right to defend their nation from attack, and you're not going to ever prevent them from doing that. They established this blockade for a legitimate reason, Hezbollah was smuggling rockets into Gaza, and they were being launched into Israel, killing thousands of innocent citizens on a daily basis. Can you imagine that happening in your hometown? Just try to do that for a moment, imagine seeing women and children and their body parts strewn all over the streets outside your house... then imagine some nitwit wanting to question your actions when you try to stop that from happening?
 
charver said:
I have merely asked 2 questions rather than "bitching and moaning".

I've given you an answer. Perhaps, you'd like to tell me what you'd like me to answer to save this rather tedious exchange from continuing.
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But you didn't give an answer to the question.
All you did was shrug your shoulders and refused to accept responsibility for the outcome.
 
charver said:
Perhaps some of this confusion about exactly what happened on that boat could be solved if -

a) The Israeli authorities released all the footage shot by those on board the boats, which they have seized and retained.

b) There was an independent and impartial investigation into the events.

Neither seem forthcoming. Why is this?
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Sure there is, we all get to sit here and speculate wildly and we all know that there's nothing more accurate than the wild accusations of the uninformed interwebs poster!
 
No conservative would kill without wildly mouthing the immense pleasure they recieve in their pointless and nonselfdefense killing for no other reason than sadistic pleasure.
 
I ask you, after reading this thread, how can any thinking person seriously support the right of conservative animals to continue living? We must do the compassionate thing and put them down, ending their tortous disease that is to the detriment of themselves and us all.
 
Dixie said:
Because the Israelis don't have to, that's why, charver. The plain truth is, the Israelis kicked everyone's ass over there in 1967, in a little more than a week, and they can pretty much do whatever they want to do in whatever water they want to do it in. Now you and the terror appeasers of the world can writhe and moan about it, you can pontificate all these intellectual points about legality and international law, but the Israelis have the right to defend their nation from attack, and you're not going to ever prevent them from doing that. They established this blockade for a legitimate reason, Hezbollah was smuggling rockets into Gaza, and they were being launched into Israel, killing thousands of innocent citizens on a daily basis. Can you imagine that happening in your hometown? Just try to do that for a moment, imagine seeing women and children and their body parts strewn all over the streets outside your house... then imagine some nitwit wanting to question your actions when you try to stop that from happening?
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This is why people have such a hard time taken you seriously, claiming that thousands of Israelis are killed on a daily basis by rockets is just laughable. The actual figure is 28 since 2001, so if you had any decency you would acknowledge your "mistake".

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:A_rocket_fired_from_a_civilian_area_in_Gaza_towards_civilian_areas_in_Southern_Israel.jpg" class="image"><img alt="A rocket fired from a civilian area in Gaza towards civilian areas in Southern Israel.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/A_rocket_fired_from_a_civilian_area_in_Gaza_towards_civilian_areas_in_Southern_Israel.jpg/200px-A_rocket_fired_from_a_civilian_area_in_Gaza_towards_civilian_areas_in_Southern_Israel.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a1/A_rocket_fired_from_a_civilian_area_in_Gaza_towards_civilian_areas_in_Southern_Israel.jpg/200px-A_rocket_fired_from_a_civilian_area_in_Gaza_towards_civilian_areas_in_Southern_Israel.jpg
 
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LMAO... Oh, okay Tom, I guess everything is fine and dandy then? I mean, the terrorists are only killing a fraction of the number I said, so that makes it all okay! You're right... the sorry Jews had no right to try and defend themselves!
 
Dixie said:
Because the Israelis don't have to, that's why, charver. The plain truth is, the Israelis kicked everyone's ass over there in 1967, in a little more than a week, and they can pretty much do whatever they want to do in whatever water they want to do it in. Now you and the terror appeasers of the world can writhe and moan about it, you can pontificate all these intellectual points about legality and international law, but the Israelis have the right to defend their nation from attack, and you're not going to ever prevent them from doing that. They established this blockade for a legitimate reason, Hezbollah was smuggling rockets into Gaza, and they were being launched into Israel, killing thousands of innocent citizens on a daily basis. Can you imagine that happening in your hometown? Just try to do that for a moment, imagine seeing women and children and their body parts strewn all over the streets outside your house... then imagine some nitwit wanting to question your actions when you try to stop that from happening?
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So it boils down to Israel can do what it likes and that. A solid argument.

Thanks for clearing that up, Dix.
 
Dixie said:
LMAO... Oh, okay Tom, I guess everything is fine and dandy then? I mean, the terrorists are only killing a fraction of the number I said, so that makes it all okay! You're right... the sorry Jews had no right to try and defend themselves!
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Well on your figures, you were talking at least 3,000,000 deaths in nine years as opposed to 28!!
 
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tom prendergast said:
Well on your figures, you were talking at least 3,000,000 deaths in nine years as opposed to 28!!
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No, you misunderstood what I posted, which was probably my fault for structuring the sentence incorrectly. Since 1967, thousands of Israelis have died as a result of indiscriminate bombing by the Palestinians. But the actual number of people who have been killed, has nothing to do with how much right Israel has to defend itself.
 
Hey, if we just let the Palestinians kill all of the Israelis, then, when they are all gone, we can begin to support and grieve for them posthumously!! I think we all just long to relive 1945 all over again!!!

:party:
 
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