Uncle Martin Would Have Been So Proud...

[Jarod]

It is the hight of stupidity and arrogance to assume just because people were related they will necessarly agree with each other.

 

[Jarod]

Ice Dancer is correct, and you are wrong anyway, WB. This retarded idea you and liberals have, that God is somehow disassociated with our unique and special form of government. This little fucked in the head idea has been ruminating in the intellectual elite circles for years, and pinheads like you, sop it up like gravy. You're a fucking idiot, and you are being used by people who seek to remove us from our spiritual beliefs, in order to enslave us to the state, and you are their willing accomplice in that mission. Were you even aware, that this was the very first principle and objective of Marxist-Leninism, to remove religion, so that people must have faith in the government instead?

Calling people, "fucked in the head" is very God like!

 

[WinterBorn]

Who said anything about the government participating in religion? We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!

How is that different from the way things are now? Many churches provide support for, and endose candidates.

No, I am not refusing to say that! Neither were the founders, neither did the Declaration of Independence. What part of ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL do you fail to understand? The entire premise of our founding is that we embrace and welcome ALL religion!

I have no difficulty understanding "All men are created equal". What you, apparently fail to realize is that many religions do not preach that. And even those that do, will not recognize all religions as equal. A simply browsing of the threads concerning the manhattan mosque will prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Let's go back in history a bit, and try to find you some perspective here, because you are really lacking... Back before America was born, great empires fought for years and years, long bloody wars, over who's god was greatest. Each side believing their God was on their side, and the war they fought was in their God's name. Centuries of death and human destruction, over which group of people had the "best" God. Through this, many ideas were attempted, the English attempted to establish a national church, and have everyone pray to the same God. This worked for a while, but because the government established the church, you were really worshiping the government and not God. When puritans began worshiping God and forsaking government, problems ensued, and they left England as a result of that friction.

Our Founders were well aware of that situation, as well as the history of centuries fought between people in the name of their gods, so they contemplated an idea which would remedy all the problems and pitfalls of the past. Knowing that we could never maintain a solid principled society without ANY religious foundation, they established that we are ALL creatures of God, our own God, whoever or whatever God we believe in, and we have a universal tenant as children of our individual gods, we are created with inalienable rights. The Nation takes no favor toward ANY particular god, only the universal concept that whatever our god, it endows us with our freedom.

Where we have allowed ourselves to stray from this, is to foster a concept that government is supposed to be separated from religion by a wall, which would essentially mean we are an "Atheist" nation, instead of One Nation Under God!

You keep talking about what the founders meant, and yet you ignore the fact that when they wrote the US Constitution, it was meant to be the foundation for our nation. Where do you find mention of religion in the Constitution?

Also, the "One nation Under God" was a line added to the pledge during the cold war.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And that changed, didn't it?

In fact, when the US Constitution was ratified, people were still being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

James Madison said this about religious persecution in the 18th century: ""That diabolical, hell-conceived principle of persecution rages among some. . . . There are at this time in the adjacent county not less than five or six well-meaning men in close jail for publishing their religious sentiments, which in the main are very orthodox. . . . So I must beg you to . . . pray for liberty of conscience for all."

Those times which you harken back to were not golden years for those who believed differently from the majority.

No, it actually didn't change for many years, even up into the 1800s, states still maintained charters which designated the state on the foundation of various denominations of religion. I honestly don't think it was until the early 1950s, this began to fundamentally change. Since then, we've been on a slow downward moral spiral, as we attempt to tinker with the founding principles through the ignorant understanding that we should build a wall to separate government from religion. It's a backwards idea! It's the exact polar opposite of what our founding fathers ever intended!

 

[Jarod]

"All men are created equal" - Including Athists and Muslims?

 

[Jarod]

No, it actually didn't change for many years, even up into the 1800s, states still maintained charters which designated the state on the foundation of various denominations of religion. I honestly don't think it was until the early 1950s, this began to fundamentally change. Since then, we've been on a slow downward moral spiral, as we attempt to tinker with the founding principles through the ignorant understanding that we should build a wall to separate government from religion. It's a backwards idea! It's the exact polar opposite of what our founding fathers ever intended!

Silly, you belive in the 1950's as portrayed in television... That is such bullshit. Or are you saying you would like to go back the the McCarthy style of governing? Are you saying you would like to go back to ostrosyzing people who were brave enough to admit being gay... Are you saying you would like to go back to segregation? Are you saying you would like to making home in the kitchen the only option for women with families? Are you saying you would like to go back to having 0 women in leadership positions.....

CUZ that was the 1950's!

 

[WinterBorn]

No, it actually didn't change for many years, even up into the 1800s, states still maintained charters which designated the state on the foundation of various denominations of religion. I honestly don't think it was until the early 1950s, this began to fundamentally change. Since then, we've been on a slow downward moral spiral, as we attempt to tinker with the founding principles through the ignorant understanding that we should build a wall to separate government from religion. It's a backwards idea! It's the exact polar opposite of what our founding fathers ever intended!

Is it an oversight that you don't mention the Puritans beating and jailing the Quakers for their religious beliefs? Or the fact that the mormons were continually persecuted and chased out of every place they tried to settle?


YOu claim you do not want any gov't religion, but only want religion to be a part of gov't?

Tell me exactly how that differs from what we have now?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

How is that different from the way things are now? Many churches provide support for, and endose candidates.

It's different because that was once the ONLY way a candidate was endorsed, nothing else mattered.

I have no difficulty understanding "All men are created equal". What you, apparently fail to realize is that many religions do not preach that. And even those that do, will not recognize all religions as equal. A simply browsing of the threads concerning the manhattan mosque will prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Nope, you have a profound problem with understanding this. It's not about what individual religions recognize, it's about what our nation and government recognize. The mosque has nothing to do with this, it's not about Muslims worshiping Islam, that right is protected under the 1st Amendment, and idgits like you, have tried to turn it into something very ugly. The opposition is to the LOCATION of the mosque, not the religion.

You keep talking about what the founders meant, and yet you ignore the fact that when they wrote the US Constitution, it was meant to be the foundation for our nation. Where do you find mention of religion in the Constitution?

In the 1st Amendment!

Also, the "One nation Under God" was a line added to the pledge during the cold war.

The argument wasn't when did we come up with the line! This was a principle since the day the Constitution was dreamed up! It is best articulated in the Declaration of Independence.... you know, that non-legal and binding historical founding document that doesn't mean shit to you?

 

[Jarod]

It's different because that was once the ONLY way a candidate was endorsed, nothing else mattered.



Nope, you have a profound problem with understanding this. It's not about what individual religions recognize, it's about what our nation and government recognize. The mosque has nothing to do with this, it's not about Muslims worshiping Islam, that right is protected under the 1st Amendment, and idgits like you, have tried to turn it into something very ugly. The opposition is to the LOCATION of the mosque, not the religion.



In the 1st Amendment!



The argument wasn't when did we come up with the line! This was a principle since the day the Constitution was dreamed up! It is best articulated in the Declaration of Independence.... you know, that non-legal and binding historical founding document that doesn't mean shit to you?

DIXIE, under the 1st Amendment you cant prohibit one Religen a location that you would permit a different religen. That is clear.... You cant say, because you are an Islamist orginization, you cant build here, but if you were Christian or Jewish you could.

You cant discriminate against people or orginizations due to a religous doctrine or lack of a religous doctrine.

You clearly do not understand the basics of the Constitution or American freedom if you belvie differently.

 

[Canceled2]

So this was a religious revival and not a political rally?

I think you want to pigeonhole it. That said, I think the idea of calling people back to a moral center asking them to pray for their country to stand up for our founding principles are all noble.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Silly, you belive in the 1950's as portrayed in television... That is such bullshit. Or are you saying you would like to go back the the McCarthy style of governing? Are you saying you would like to go back to ostrosyzing people who were brave enough to admit being gay... Are you saying you would like to go back to segregation? Are you saying you would like to making home in the kitchen the only option for women with families? Are you saying you would like to go back to having 0 women in leadership positions.....

CUZ that was the 1950's!

Why don't you just shut your fat retard mouth, turdface? Yeah, I'm saying I want to go back to McCarthy style, and round up you fucking godless retarded morons and put a fucking bullet in the back of your pathetic heads! That's what I am saying Jarhead! I might as well be saying it, because that is what you're going to believe, and that is what your are going to run around lying about for the next week, claiming I believe... so why not?

Now, run along and start creating dozens of new threads to trumpet what Dixie said! You fucking retarded goofball!

 

[WinterBorn]

It's different because that was once the ONLY way a candidate was endorsed, nothing else mattered.

And you think that was a good thing?

Nope, you have a profound problem with understanding this. It's not about what individual religions recognize, it's about what our nation and government recognize. The mosque has nothing to do with this, it's not about Muslims worshiping Islam, that right is protected under the 1st Amendment, and idgits like you, have tried to turn it into something very ugly. The opposition is to the LOCATION of the mosque, not the religion.

Riiiight. Thats why you made the threads about liberals loving Sharia Law. lol

The argument wasn't when did we come up with the line! This was a principle since the day the Constitution was dreamed up! It is best articulated in the Declaration of Independence.... you know, that non-legal and binding historical founding document that doesn't mean shit to you?

Oh, so the "One Nation Under God" was there all along, but know one bothered to write it down?





Just what, exactly, do you want to have happen with religion being a part of gov't?

 

[WinterBorn]

I think you want to pigeonhole it. That said, I think the idea of calling people back to a moral center asking them to pray for their country to stand up for our founding principles are all noble.

I think having people pray for our nation is a great idea. I have done it on many occasions.

 

[Jarod]

Why don't you just shut your fat retard mouth, turdface? Yeah, I'm saying I want to go back to McCarthy style, and round up you fucking godless retarded morons and put a fucking bullet in the back of your pathetic heads! That's what I am saying Jarhead! I might as well be saying it, because that is what you're going to believe, and that is what your are going to run around lying about for the next week, claiming I believe... so why not?

Now, run along and start creating dozens of new threads to trumpet what Dixie said! You fucking retarded goofball!

So, you have no substanative response?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And you think that was a good thing?

Whether I think it was good or bad, has nothing to do with the fact that it was obviously NOT unconstitutional or against the founding principles!

Riiiight. Thats why you made the threads about liberals loving Sharia Law. lol

No, I made those threads because liberals are endorsing the idea of Sharia arbitration, and setting up Sharia courts in America.

Oh, so the "One Nation Under God" was there all along, but know one bothered to write it down?

Uh, yeah, have you READ the Declaration of Independence?

Just what, exactly, do you want to have happen with religion being a part of gov't?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtNscI-DiQI&NR=1"]YouTube- Restoring Honor Rally- Dr. Alveda King[/ame]

Better stated than I ever could. Take 10 minutes to listen. Then come back and tell me what parts you have a problem with. Okay?

 

[Jarod]

I think having people pray for our nation is a great idea. I have done it on many occasions.

Anything that you belive will work...Creative visizualizaton, Pray, posative thoughts, Chanting, Drum Circles...

 

[Canceled2]

I think having people pray for our nation is a great idea. I have done it on many occasions.

There's another thread on here "greatest speech" or something. A read of Washington's Farewell Address" would certainly benefit your understanding of how our government was inspired and founded. It would also serve to provide you with an understanding of the views of people like Beck with regards to our nation.

 

[WinterBorn]

Better stated than I ever could. Take 10 minutes to listen. Then come back and tell me what parts you have a problem with. Okay?

I listened to it early this morning and enjoyed it.

But you said, "We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!".

Exactly what are you advocating there?

 

[Canceled2]

I listened to it early this morning and enjoyed it.

But you said, "We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!".

Exactly what are you advocating there?

To see godly men and women in office? To pray for wisdom amongst our leaders? These were common ideas not so long ago. Freedom of religion is not equal to no religion. To protect the idividual right to worship or not worship as one sees fit is the only true biblical precept. A mans conscience must be free. That said a quick pervue of founding writings and even within our documents it is easy to see a religious idealism.

How is it that you can't seem to understand what is in view?

 

[Jarod]

I listened to it early this morning and enjoyed it.

But you said, "We're talking about the opposite, religion participating in government!".

Exactly what are you advocating there?[/QUOTE]

To see godly men and women in office? To pray for wisdom amongst our leaders? These were common ideas not so long ago. Freedom of religion is not equal to no religion. To protect the idividual right to worship or not worship as one sees fit is the only true biblical precept. A mans conscience must be free. That said a quick pervue of founding writings and even within our documents it is easy to see a religious idealism.

How is it that you can't seem to understand what is in view?

And the Muslims should be free to have a house of worship on land that they own and where any other religen would be allowed to do so.