Trump's tax cut proposal

ZappasGuitar said:
It is astounding how naive JPP conservatives are when it comes to cutting taxes and the supposed "benefits" to workers.

Over and over and over and over they are told how "trickle down " is the answer to all their prayers, only to watch as the rich take their new tax cut and squirrel away any added profits while nothing ever seems to "trickle down" to them.
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You think they keep their money in pillowcases in the closet, don't you...and the poor create jobs.....you're an idiot....
 
Thing1 said:
And the estate tax elimination is ridiculous.

That perpetuates the aristocracy, which even the founders warned against.
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really? the founders argued for the government confiscating peoples property as a means to dealing with aristocracy?

can you support that? or are you just making an assumption not supported by fact?

So how much of one's wealth do you think is sufficient for them to dispose of after they pass on? What percentage?

Are you willing to apply these estate taxes to persons regardless of net worth? If not why not?
 
I can see why Thingy thinks we should feel conned by the Donald.

I mean after all during the campaign he said he was going to raise taxes on the rich. Oh wait, he said he was going to CUT taxes. Now he is doing what he said he was going to do.

I don't think Thingy really knows what the word conned means?

:dunno:
 
I Love America said:
really? the founders argued for the government confiscating peoples property as a means to dealing with aristocracy?

can you support that? or are you just making an assumption not supported by fact?

So how much of one's wealth do you think is sufficient for them to dispose of after they pass on? What percentage?

Are you willing to apply these estate taxes to persons regardless of net worth? If not why not?
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Oh, yay. A pop quiz, from a guy who apparently knows nothing on this subject.

Before I go digging up quotes, let's hear it from you: do you think the founders had nothing to say about passing wealth between generations, and the concept of an estate tax?

Let's get a statement of ignorance before I post evidence.
 
Thing1 said:
Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and many other leaders from our inception warned against the dangers of inherited wealth. Remember, our country was basically started because of the oppressive nature of the aristocracy we escaped.

That is more of a moral issue than what you suggest. And the estate tax is just that - a tax. It still allows for inheritance, and only kicks in at a certain level.
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The founders rejection of aristocracy was a political issue.

OTOH taxing people coming and going their whole lives, only to tax them one last time for having the audacity to die, is immoral.
 
NOVA said:
You think they keep their money in pillowcases in the closet, don't you...and the poor create jobs.....you're an idiot....
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ROFL!

More petty derision to mask your ignorance.

NO, the rich don't keep their money in pillowcases, they use offshore tax havens you incredible moron.
 
Zap you never answered what Trump proposed on the campaign and what he's proposing here that was so different that his voters all got fooled?
 
Thing1 said:
Oh, yay. A pop quiz, from a guy who apparently knows nothing on this subject.

Before I go digging up quotes, let's hear it from you: do you think the founders had nothing to say about passing wealth between generations, and the concept of an estate tax?

Let's get a statement of ignorance before I post evidence.
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I know a good deal on this subject.


Here are a couple of quotes for you


“To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association.” Thomas Jefferson


I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. — I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer Benjamin Franklin

Now, I am sure you will find some extraneous quote that you think supports your position that the government should confiscate property and dole it out to others. However, nothing in the Constitution as originally written supported that thesis. In fact, until the the Income Tax was passed, it was widely held that direct taxation was forbidden by the Constitution. An estate tax is by definition a direct tax.

With that said, would you support an estate tax on all households? Why just the rich? Why do some get to pass down wealth and not others? Also, how are you being harmed because Paris Hilton inherits billions of dollars? Do you somehow think you have been cheated by the Hiltons?
 
I Love America said:
I know a good deal on this subject.


Here are a couple of quotes for you


“To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association.” Thomas Jefferson


I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. — I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer Benjamin Franklin

Now, I am sure you will find some extraneous quote that you think supports your position that the government should confiscate property and dole it out to others. However, nothing in the Constitution as originally written supported that thesis. In fact, until the the Income Tax was passed, it was widely held that direct taxation was forbidden by the Constitution. An estate tax is by definition a direct tax.

With that said, would you support an estate tax on all households? Why just the rich? Why do some get to pass down wealth and not others? Also, how are you being harmed because Paris Hilton inherits billions of dollars? Do you somehow think you have been cheated by the Hiltons?
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Quite the 'liberal' that Jefferson lol.
 
I Love America said:
I know a good deal on this subject.


Here are a couple of quotes for you


“To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association.” Thomas Jefferson


I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. — I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer Benjamin Franklin

Now, I am sure you will find some extraneous quote that you think supports your position that the government should confiscate property and dole it out to others. However, nothing in the Constitution as originally written supported that thesis. In fact, until the the Income Tax was passed, it was widely held that direct taxation was forbidden by the Constitution. An estate tax is by definition a direct tax.

With that said, would you support an estate tax on all households? Why just the rich? Why do some get to pass down wealth and not others? Also, how are you being harmed because Paris Hilton inherits billions of dollars? Do you somehow think you have been cheated by the Hiltons?
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You'll notice that Franklin & Jefferson are speaking about regular taxes there - not the estate tax.

I don't personally feel cheated by the Hiltons, but that's oversimplifying. The more inherited wealth is passed on without taxation, the more wealth will become concentrated in a smaller % of the population. Essentially, a new aristocracy, composed of people who did little or nothing to earn the millions or billions bestowed upon them.

It makes for some problematic math as time goes on. Because the gap will just continue to grow. No one is suggesting that nothing be passed on. But at a certain level, it should be taxed.

That's really not even a lefty thing. Quite a few conservatives agree w/ the concept of the estate tax.
 
tsuke said:
i have always advocated for a lower tax but for closing of loopholes. The current paper rate is 30% and all they actually pay is 15%. Make it 15 or 20 and have everyone pay it equally.
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maybe for a fortune 500 company with targeted writeoffs, but the average corporation pays the stated rate......
 
Thing1 said:
You'll notice that Franklin & Jefferson are speaking about regular taxes there - not the estate tax.

I don't personally feel cheated by the Hiltons, but that's oversimplifying. The more inherited wealth is passed on without taxation, the more wealth will become concentrated in a smaller % of the population. Essentially, a new aristocracy, composed of people who did little or nothing to earn the millions or billions bestowed upon them.

It makes for some problematic math as time goes on. Because the gap will just continue to grow. No one is suggesting that nothing be passed on. But at a certain level, it should be taxed.

That's really not even a lefty thing. Quite a few conservatives agree w/ the concept of the estate tax.
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How much wealth do you think the government should allow people to keep?

And what threat is Paris Hilton inheriting lots of money to you? How are you materially harmed? What threat is she to the country?

Lastly what do you think about people like Gates and the Clintons who shield their wealth from estate taxes through foundations? Aren't they essentially using a loophole to cheat the gobblement? Should foundations be taxed?
 
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