trump signs russia sanctions bill

Jarod said:
Who wants war?
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YOU, and your fellow liberals,
what else do you call al of this collusion, punish them, punish them crap?

It's like you want to piss Putin off. That's just a really bad idea, I wish you would trust me on that one. Some things you just have to accept, and one of those reality's is that Putin is not a very nice person.
And if you truly worry about "meddling" whatever that means then work to prevent it.
It was derelict to allow him to hack the DNC, and on who's watch?

You're attacking Trump for Obama's failings, plain and simple.
Trump is smart enough to know keep Putin in check, but don't fu@k with him, that's very dangerous, very dangerous.
 
Getin the ring said:
YOU, and your fellow liberals,
what else do you call al of this collusion, punish them, punish them crap?

It's like you want to piss Putin off. That's just a really bad idea, I wish you would trust me on that one. Some things you just have to accept, and one of those reality's is that Putin is not a very nice person.
And if you truly worry about "meddling" whatever that means then work to prevent it.
It was derelict to allow him to hack the DNC, and on who's watch?

You're attacking Trump for Obama's failings, plain and simple.
Trump is smart enough to know keep Putin in check, but don't fu@k with him, that's very dangerous, very dangerous.
Click to expand...

I'm not afraid to stand up to Putin, when Russia fucks with our election, they have to suffer consequences. Just because they have a big army is no reason to let them push us around.
 
Jarod said:
I'm not afraid to stand up to Putin, when Russia fucks with our election, they have to suffer consequences. Just because they have a big army is no reason to let them push us around.
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must be nice to be ignorant and naïve, like "I aint afraid of no tiger, let me in the cage".
When he swipes his paw and rips off half of your face it's too late. In this case I'm outside the cage with you, so step away from the gate, please, trust me on this one.
 
Amadeus said:
Russia wouldn't dare attack the US with nukes, and the Russian military is not threat to America. A war with America would almost immediately bankrupt them. Again.

This whole, "Either we ease sanctions or its WW3 with nukes!" is a pathetic and false narrative.
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So why are we so obsessed with them again?
 
blackascoal said:
So what?

Using them would mean annihilation for them.
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not MAD type use. Battlefield type use.
If it came to a shooting war in Europe ( think tanks /artillery/ avionics) and Russia could use a low yield nuke to make up for force inferiority..why would they not?

Nukes would just be another weapon let loose on enemy combatants
 
noise said:
2nd largest military in the world. it's weapons are on par with ours
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Weak ass economy almost completely dependent on falling gas and oil.

No match for NATO and the US in treasure.

The U.S. Shouldn’t Fear Russia: America Is Vastly More Powerful

"One effect of the country’s deteriorating economic situation has been the delay in concluding the next State Armament Program; originally intended to have been started in 2016, this has now been pushed back to 2018.”

Russia possesses the world’s second most powerful nuclear arsenal, capable of destroying America many times over. But even Moscow’s sharpest critics don’t believe Vladimir Putin plans to commit suicide. That nuclear threat acts more as Russia’s guarantee against U.S. coercion. Neither side can allow the stakes of any conflict to race out of control.

Beyond inaugurating nuclear Armageddon, how does Moscow threaten America? An invasion seems unlikely, since the two countries don’t share a land boundary. An attack across the Bering Strait to retake Alaska is more than a little unlikely. Which means there is no direct threat to the U.S.

How about isolating America by controlling sea and air and interdicting commerce? That’s almost as implausible. The vaunted Red Navy is gone. Moscow deploys one decrepit aircraft carrier, no match for Washington’s multiple carrier groups. And the U.S. is allied with European nations which also possess capable if smaller fleets. Russia is upgrading its forces, but it lacks the resources to equal America.

Moscow is no more likely to dominate the air above or around the U.S. Russia’s air force is capable and has gained valuable combat experience over Syria, but remains no match for America’s globe-spanning force. More dangerous may be Russian air defenses, which would ensure that hostile U.S. air operations were not the cakewalk like in Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.

Nor is there any obvious reason why Moscow would inaugurate war with the U.S. Russia’s critics notwithstanding, the Cold War is over. There is only one aggressive ideological power, and that is America. Putinism is a simpler, practical authoritarian nationalism.

The very idea of Russian domination of Eurasia is fantastic. Europe has recovered economically from World War II and consolidated politically into the European Union. The continent enjoys about three and a half times Russia’s population and almost 15 times its GDP. Indeed, Germany alone almost has three times Russia’s economic strength. The economies of the United Kingdom, France, and even Italy are larger than Russia’s economy.

Despite their shameless defense lassitude, Europeans still collectively spend nearly four times as much as Moscow on the military. The UK alone comes close to Russia’s levels. For all of the sound and fury at recent NATO meetings, no one seriously contemplates a Russian attack on “Old Europe,” or even most of “New Europe.” What would Moscow gain by triggering a potential nuclear war while trying to overrun large populations of non-Russians who would resist Moscow’s rule?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ca-is-vastly-more_us_58d1d8dce4b062043ad4ae02

Fuck Russia. You be afraid of them if you choose.
 
noise said:
not MAD type use. Battlefield type use.
If it came to a shooting war in Europe ( think tanks /artillery/ avionics) and Russia could use a low yield nuke to make up for force inferiority..why would they not?

Nukes would just be another weapon let loose on enemy combatants
Click to expand...

ANY use of a nuke triggers a nuclear response
 
blackascoal said:
Weak ass economy almost completely dependent on falling gas and oil.

No match for NATO and the US in treasure.

The U.S. Shouldn’t Fear Russia: America Is Vastly More Powerful

"One effect of the country’s deteriorating economic situation has been the delay in concluding the next State Armament Program; originally intended to have been started in 2016, this has now been pushed back to 2018.”

Russia possesses the world’s second most powerful nuclear arsenal, capable of destroying America many times over. But even Moscow’s sharpest critics don’t believe Vladimir Putin plans to commit suicide. That nuclear threat acts more as Russia’s guarantee against U.S. coercion. Neither side can allow the stakes of any conflict to race out of control.

Beyond inaugurating nuclear Armageddon, how does Moscow threaten America? An invasion seems unlikely, since the two countries don’t share a land boundary. An attack across the Bering Strait to retake Alaska is more than a little unlikely. Which means there is no direct threat to the U.S.

How about isolating America by controlling sea and air and interdicting commerce? That’s almost as implausible. The vaunted Red Navy is gone. Moscow deploys one decrepit aircraft carrier, no match for Washington’s multiple carrier groups. And the U.S. is allied with European nations which also possess capable if smaller fleets. Russia is upgrading its forces, but it lacks the resources to equal America.

Moscow is no more likely to dominate the air above or around the U.S. Russia’s air force is capable and has gained valuable combat experience over Syria, but remains no match for America’s globe-spanning force. More dangerous may be Russian air defenses, which would ensure that hostile U.S. air operations were not the cakewalk like in Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.

Nor is there any obvious reason why Moscow would inaugurate war with the U.S. Russia’s critics notwithstanding, the Cold War is over. There is only one aggressive ideological power, and that is America. Putinism is a simpler, practical authoritarian nationalism.

The very idea of Russian domination of Eurasia is fantastic. Europe has recovered economically from World War II and consolidated politically into the European Union. The continent enjoys about three and a half times Russia’s population and almost 15 times its GDP. Indeed, Germany alone almost has three times Russia’s economic strength. The economies of the United Kingdom, France, and even Italy are larger than Russia’s economy.

Despite their shameless defense lassitude, Europeans still collectively spend nearly four times as much as Moscow on the military. The UK alone comes close to Russia’s levels. For all of the sound and fury at recent NATO meetings, no one seriously contemplates a Russian attack on “Old Europe,” or even most of “New Europe.” What would Moscow gain by triggering a potential nuclear war while trying to overrun large populations of non-Russians who would resist Moscow’s rule?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ca-is-vastly-more_us_58d1d8dce4b062043ad4ae02

Fuck Russia. You be afraid of them if you choose.
Click to expand...

you trot out the same stuff. I show you the Russian economy is improving, but it's inexorably ties to energy prices. I show you more energy sales to the EU and China, and China and Russia linking up on military and economic platforms. I show you new economic deals between Russian and China
Just this week they did Naval games in the Baltic Sea:

noise said:
A senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity on what has become one of the most sensitive diplomatic problems facing the Trump administration, said the White House had not given up hopes for a better relationship. Mr. Putin’s interview on Russian television, in which he announced the reduction in staff, was free of bombast, the official noted. Russia seems uncertain about the direction of the relationship, leaving open the possibility of a reversal.
said Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, who has served in a number of senior intelligence roles for the United States, including in Russia. We’ve been in a new Cold War for some time now Any hope for a short-term improvement in relations is gone.”
that downturn accelerated in the last days of the Obama administration, he argued, “when emotions took over the relationship.” Now, said Mr. Mowatt-Larssen, who recently became director of intelligence and defense projects at the Belfer Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School, “fear has replaced anger in dealing with Russia.”

Sergey V. Lavrov, the savvy Russian foreign minister, has struck a measured tone in his conversations with Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson. In public, he has blamed not Mr. Trump, or the investigation into the Russian influence operation around the election, but Congress.
“The latest developments have demonstrated that the U.S. policy turns out to be in the hands of Russophobic forces that are pushing Washington toward confrontation,” the Foreign Ministry said on Friday, after the passage of the latest sanctions act.
Forty-eight hours later, Mr. Putin announced the huge reduction in diplomatic staffing. He said the order would take effect Sept. 1. That leaves time for haggling.

But the fundamental issue will not go away by then. Mr. Putin has now concluded that his central objective — getting relief from the American and European sanctions that followed the annexation of Crimea in 2014 — is years away.
 Once new sanctions are enshrined in law, like the ones Congress passed and Mr. Trump has reluctantly agreed to sign to avoid an override of his veto, they generally stay on the books for years.
Moreover, Washington is awash in warnings that the attacks on the election system last year are just a beginning. “They are just about their own advantage,” James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, told the Senate Intelligence Committee just before he was fired by Mr. Trump. “And they will be back.”

James R. Clapper Jr., the former director of national intelligence and a veteran of the Cold War, echoed that thought recently and mixed in more than a few issues that sounded straight out of the 1980s nuclear competition. “What we don’t mention very often is the very aggressive modernization program they’re embarked on with their strategic nuclear capability,” he said.

And that, in the end, is the real risk. With the exception of Syria — where the militaries of both nations have had sporadic, if mutually suspicious, contact — there is virtually no military-to-military conversation of the kind that took place routinely during the Cold War. And with Russian and American forces both operating near the Baltics, and off the coast of Europe, the chances for accident and miscalculation are high.
This latest plunge in relations comes at the 70th anniversary of “The Sources of Soviet Conduct,” an article George Kennan, the architect of Cold War strategy, published in Foreign Affairs in July 1947 under the pseudonym “X.”

It defined the strategy that dominated Washington for the next four decades, captured in Mr. Kennan’s line that the “United States policy toward the Soviet Union must be that of a long-term, patient but firm and vigilant containment of Russian expansive tendencies.”
That was not the approach Mr. Trump had in mind a year ago. It may now be the approach forced upon him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/30/...trump-presidency-backfires-spectacularly.html
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You really should look thru this thread and update your threat assessments
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?82869-Congress-Cements-Cold-War-2
 
Getin the ring said:
must be nice to be ignorant and naïve, like "I aint afraid of no tiger, let me in the cage".
When he swipes his paw and rips off half of your face it's too late. In this case I'm outside the cage with you, so step away from the gate, please, trust me on this one.
Click to expand...

So we should let Russia bully us, manipulate our elections, and not stand up to them because you are afraid?
 
noise said:
you trot out the same stuff. I show you the Russian economy is improving, but it's inexorably ties to energy prices. I show you more energy sales to the EU and China, and China and Russia linking up on military and economic platforms. I show you new economic deals between Russian and China
Just this week they did Naval games in the Baltic Sea:



You really should look thru this thread and update your threat assessments
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?82869-Congress-Cements-Cold-War-2
Click to expand...

You look through the thread and tell me where the above article is posted.

You should really grow the fuck up and stop trying to tell me what to post.

I don't give a damn about what you post. Don't give a damn about how scary you think Russia is.

How about you post whatever you want and I'll do the same.
 
blackascoal said:
ANY use of a nuke triggers a nuclear response
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nope. Consider Europe as a battlefield which is the standoff now.
Consider tank battles in Poland-or naval battles in the Baltic Sea.

Consider the horror of a NATO/Russian war of whatever degree.
Consider Russia uses a small scale nuke capable of taking out an array of NATO weaponry.

The world is horrified..but does that trigger MAD or does it make us repel at the idea of all out destruction?

They could get away with it within the horrors of war kn Europe because we/they would not want escalation to a nuclear response
 
noise said:
nope. Consider Europe as a battlefield which is the standoff now.
Consider tank battles in Poland-or naval battles in the Baltic Sea.

Consider the horror of a NATO/Russian war of whatever degree.
Consider Russia uses a small scale nuke capable of taking out an array of NATO weaponry.

The world is horrified..but does that trigger MAD or does it make us repel at the idea of all out destruction?

They could get away with it within the horrors of war kn Europe because we/they would not want escalation to a nuclear response
Click to expand...

:0) Sure .. silly, but sure.
 
blackascoal said:
You look through the thread and tell me where the above article is posted.

You should really grow the fuck up and stop trying to tell me what to post.

I don't give a damn about what you post. Don't give a damn about how scary you think Russia is.

How about you post whatever you want and I'll do the same.
Click to expand...
I do not want to tell you anything good brother. I am offering you a perspective on Russian-China economic/strategic/military alignment. I meant it in good faith
 
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