BidenPresident
Verified User
Even Satan is saying, whoa, hold back Mr Trump!
Trump Says Threats to 'Hang Mike Pence' on Jan. 6 Were 'Common Sense'
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Even Satan is saying, whoa, hold back Mr Trump!
Old Trapper
Verified User
Obviously you are not a lawyer, know nothing of the law, and are just a trump toady doing the will of your gawds. Try looking up the legal definition of a "threat", and then come back and show us where that threat has to made in person to the party being threatened.
Then too, you are probably stupid enough to believe that the threats made were "common sense", and Pence never heard them.
This (and others) prove that you are an ambivert.
After an hour and a half, an official car showed up to pick Pence up. He refused to get into it. He figured they would deliver him to the insurrectionists. he did not trust Trump.
It may be "Hang Mike Pence" worried him.
Stating the law does not make me a "Trump toady." You make that uninformed and irrational conclusion why? Because you want the rioters charged with threats and since I informed you that does not meet the criteria for a threat I must be opposed to charging them with that crime because I supported that cause? Think how perverted that conclusion is. You are one of the many JPP posters who assume a person is on the opposite side because he does not agree with every knee-jerk point you make. And, resorting to personal insults shows you have run out of anything meaningful to say.
You are right, I am not a lawyer. But, I can read and know how difficult it is to prove things like incitement to riot, threats, insurrection, etc. if they do not meet the criteria.
We don't know if Pence heard the chants or not, but chanting is not an attempt to convey a threat to a person. If Pence did not hear the chants they could not have made him fear for his safety (although all the other rioting probably made him fearful).
You can't understand the law by framing everything in terms of your partisan biases. Political debate is not citing a bunch of party talking points. Obviously, you have no court cases to support your points, it is just talking off the top of your head.
Do you understand how lame it is to think I am a Trump supporter because of your lack of knowledge about law?
Maybe, if he heard the chants. But none of your post has anything to do with whether their actions meet the criteria for threats.
Again, the fact that nobody has been charged with making threats should tell you something.
"The words "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" were chanted at a protest march held by a Black Lives Matter group in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 2015."
Does the above chant constitute a threat? Of course, not. But I have a feeling you agree with me on this chant but are willing to think "Hang Pence" does not constitute a threat. Why, because your biases outweigh your willingness to read the legal cases.
Old Trapper
Verified User
Show me one post that you have made citing the law that clearly supports your asinine OPINION
I do know the law fool, have posted it for ass wipes like you to read, and you are wrong.
They threatened the shit out of him. Whether he heard it or not, it was a loud and nasty threat. They set up a gallows. Pence was scared shitless and hid in the basement. He refused to get in the government car because he figured Trump controlled it and would drop him off for the mob. We do not know if he heard those precise words. You are proceeding after making an assumption he did not. Refusing the limo makes me think he knew exactly what was going on.
I made no posts about my opinion. I just cited legal principles and precedent. You only posted the law itself, nothing showing required elements or court interpretations.
My posts include 16, 27,29,35,38,40, 41, 54, 61, 63, 69, 73, 74, and 77.
Some court cases and interpretations can be found in these limited sources:
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1025/true-threats
https://www.freedomforuminstitute.o...oncern-over-courts-true-threat-jurisprudence/
If I say "Trump has a pretty tie today" the idiot liberals (about half of them) will say I am a Trump supporter. If I say "Trump has an ugly tie" the idiot conservatives (about half of them) will say I am a leftist. Shows their level of logical thinking.
BidenPresident
Verified User
Why is it important for you to pretend not to be a right wing supporter of Trump? Your self deceit is obvious to everyone. What do you get out of it?
The limo had nothing to do with the chanting. I understand he was very scared, but that would be true even if he never heard the chants. The chant was not delivered to him directly. No person person delivered a communication to Pence that he was going to hang him. We don't know if Pence heard the chant.
If saying Obama "is going to take a .50 caliber to the head" was ruled as not a true threat, changing "Hang Mike Pence" meets even fewer elements.
If you can show me court cases or rulings contrary to my posts, I would love to update my knowledge.
Why do you make the idiotic accusation that I am? I have made many posts about the stupidity of claiming voter fraud with many "thanks" from liberal posters. That includes you.
Why are you such a binary thinker that unless somebody agrees with you on every point they must be the opposite party? I can usually predict how most posters will side on most issues because of their past posts. Obviously, you are unable to make that generalization or you just thanked me for my posts without looking at the author.
One example:
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:
Old Trapper
Verified User
NOTHING in those Court decisions support your OPINION, and you have cited no "legal principles or precedents". Try again.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
There's no way that was a real gallows ffs, Kenny.
Those court decisions make it clear individuals must convey a message to another that they are threatening harm and he must have reasonable fear for his safety.
They also make it clear that "Hang Mike Pence" is not a direct threat to do anything but falls within the context of free speech protest.
Is this a criminal threat? "It said one Facebook post in May showed an image of Trump with a caption reading, “True colors shining through, wanna hang this mf'er too!!!%” '
What about this? "Maischak, who teaches American history according to his Twitter bio and according to the Fresno State faculty directory, tweeted Feb. 17 that “to save American democracy, Trump must hang. The sooner and the higher, the better.”
Let's just wait and see whether anybody is charged with threats. That will decide this question.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Nordberg,
Nor Chuck Schumer nor Adam Nadler. I can't imagine if they had taken any of those people prisoner and marched them out to the gallows that the crowd would have chanted: "We were just kidding. Let him go!"
NOT happening.
Nor Chuck Schumer nor Adam Nadler. I can't imagine if they had taken any of those people prisoner and marched them out to the gallows that the crowd would have chanted: "We were just kidding. Let him go!"
NOT happening.
Old Trapper
Verified User
Until then, kind of like no one has been charged with insurrection, your OPINION does not overrule established precedent. From your source which you are too ignorant to understand:
United States v. Kelner (2d Cir. 1976) that a true threat is a threat that “on its face and in the circumstances in which it is made is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to the person threatened, as to convey a gravity of purpose and imminent prospect of execution.”
NOTHING about it having to be in person. And obviously the Secret Service found it credible even if trumpkins, and fools, do not.
The limo has to do with his trust of Trump. He was not getting into a limo that Trump might have control over. He knew by then Trump was going to furious and want vengeance.
I believe Pence heard the chants. they were loud and he is not deaf.
That did not happen and he was not harmed. Pence refused to leave the Capitol when the Secret Service urged him to.
I never said it had to be in person; obviously, internet or written threats present a different set of issues. But, the person must clearly state he intends to harm the person threatened. A crowd chanting "Hang Mike Pence" does not make it clear who intends to hang Pence or if anybody does plan to do so.
It also not "unequivocal, unconditional" because many protests include chants aimed against somebody that are not true threats.
Would a crowd outside the White House yelling "Hang Donald Trump" constitute a criminal threat? Or, is this just expressing opposition to Trump?
Now, this is a threat.
[h=1]Trump supporter found guilty of threatening to kill members of Congress after Jan. 6 insurrection[/h]https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-supporter-brendan-hunt-convicted-death-threat-democrats/2021/04/28/9a239624-a838-11eb-bca5-048b2759a489_story.html
It contains all the necessary elements of a threat while your opinion does not consider all the requirements. Keep working--you can get it.