To Evince

[Cancel 2016.2]

And your healthcare would have gone up if they did nothing.

The healthcare industry was raising rates like bandits over the last decade.

actually they have been raising premiums for over the last 3 decades.... because their COSTS keep going up due to people wanting EVERYTHING covered under EVERYONE's GUARANTEED plans.

This idiocy began when we started shifting from individual plans to corporate and government plans.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Illegals?

And it doesn't change the insurance you have currently unless your plan is shittier than the minimum.

is my plan "shittier" because it doesn't provide dental care for children under the age of 21?.....(hint, I have no children under the age of 21).......is it "shittier" because it does not provide maternity care?.....(hint, my wife is 58 years old).......is it shittier because it has a $5k deductible instead of a $1k deductible.....(hint, the difference in premiums is $4k).......my plan was cheaper than the "minimum" plan because it provided less than the "minimum" plan......but it excluded things I chose to exclude, not what the government chose for me......

 

[christiefan915]

Premiums go up every year because of the high healthcare cost inflation. Not much you can do about that outside of price fixing.

It's true that healthcare insurance companies don't make extreme profits, but with a social system I don't really see the need for them to be there sucking up any profits at all. If I have the choice between people dying and keeping them in the system, though, I'm going to be forced to play realpolitik and just shrug it off.

True enough that premiums always have and always will go up, but insurance companies are now using the health care law as a scapegoat to hide that little reality of life.

I'm not buying into the argument that medical care will become infinitely more expensive when the law is fully enacted.

Just over the last 20 years or so there have been tremendous changes to medicine that should reduce, not increase the cost of care. For instance, people used to spend a week in the hospital after they were cut open for gall bladder surgery, now it's a laparoscopic procedure and the patient gets discharged either the same day or the next day. When our mothers were giving birth women spent a week in the hospital. When my kids were born it was in and out 24 hours after the birth, practically a drive-through. I can think of other examples but you get the picture.

Still checking but I can't find a single health insurer that went bankrupt because it was too generous to the clients.

 

[Phantasmal]

True enough that premiums always have and always will go up, but insurance companies are now using the health care law as a scapegoat to hide that little reality of life.

I'm not buying into the argument that medical care will become infinitely more expensive when the law is fully enacted.

Just over the last 20 years or so there have been tremendous changes to medicine that should reduce, not increase the cost of care. For instance, people used to spend a week in the hospital after they were cut open for gall bladder surgery, now it's a laparoscopic procedure and the patient gets discharged either the same day or the next day. When our mothers were giving birth women spent a week in the hospital. When my kids were born it was in and out 24 hours after the birth, practically a drive-through. I can think of other examples but you get the picture.

Still checking but I can't find a single health insurer that went bankrupt because it was too generous to the clients.

Hospital charges and insurance rate have gone up over the years faster than cosmetics costs, well, maybe I exaggerate a bit on this one!

 

[evince]

actually they have been raising premiums for over the last 3 decades.... because their COSTS keep going up due to people wanting EVERYTHING covered under EVERYONE's GUARANTEED plans.

This idiocy began when we started shifting from individual plans to corporate and government plans.

Bullshit.

there profits were up.

Like any company they just kept seeking more profits.

There has to come a time when profits can no longer go up.

 

[christiefan915]

again....

<snip>

Headaches, no matter how severe, should not be covered (IMO). Things like this where a small percentage of the population will experience migranes should not be covered in base plans. Otherwise we ALL end up paying for the protection for something we are (a) unlikely to need and (b) isn't a financial impediment.

This is something I'm passionate about because a migraine isn't just a headache. Many people can't take an over the counter prep and wait for it to work because the biological and systemic basis of migraine is different from the average headache and milder drugs don't work. I know a young woman who was on a medical disability for migraines until the new generation of drugs was created. Employers are losing a productive person when that individual has to spend the day (or more) in bed in a darkened room, rather than taking a pill and going to work.

What is the point of pouring money into medical research that helps people with chronic problems, if companies decide they won't allow the drug? My drug is now generic so it's not like the cost is prohibitive. Instead of taking medicine migraineurs can go to the ER and get hooked up to a drip and the company will pay (at least partly) for that. Where's the common sense?

It's not that black and white, IMO, and I'm not asking them to cover everything, whatever that means. Cough drops? Birth control? Viagra?

Cutting medication for chronic pain is just foolhardy. My company will pay for X number of chiropractic visits a year for people with chronic pain, yet balk at paying for migraine medicine. It doesn't compute.

 

[christiefan915]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fort...ies/Health_Care_Insurance_Managed_Care/1.html

REVENUES PROFITS
Rank Company 1,000 revenues rank $ millions % change from 2005 $ millions % change from 2005
1 UnitedHealth Group 21 71,542 58 4,159 26
2 Wellpoint 35 56,953 26 3,095 26
3 Aetna 85 25,569 12 1,702 4
4 Humana 110 21,417 49 487 58
5 Cigna 139 16,547 -1 1,155 -29
6 Health Net 189 12,908 8 329 43
7 Coventry Health Care 313 7,734 17 560 12
8 WellCare Health Plans 551 3,763 100 139 168
9 Amerigroup 676 2,835 22 107 100
10 Centene 792 2,279 51 -44 -178
11 Medical Mutual of Ohio 847 2,039 10 100 57
12 Molina Healthcare 858 2,005 22 46 66
13 Sierra Health Services 943 1,719 24 140 17

From the April 30th, 2007 issue

Highmark BCBS doubled their profits from last year. I'm all for companies making money but they'd damn well better not poor-mouth when the evidence is to the contrary.

"Health insurer Highmark Inc. doubled its profits in 2009, according to financial results announced this morning. Highmark said it had net income of $187.7 million, up from $94.1 million in 2008."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/03/profit_doubles_for_health_insu.html

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Bullshit.

there profits were up.

Like any company they just kept seeking more profits.

There has to come a time when profits can no longer go up.

Desh,

your understanding of business is pathetic. I posted the profit margins from YOUR link.

So based on your above numbers the profit margins were:

united Health 5.81%
Wellpoint 5.43%
Aetna 6.66% (avoid them, obviously evil)
Humana 2.27%
Cigna 6.98%
Health Net 2.55%

Those were the top ones... wow... totally evil companies all making under 7% profit margins.

Yes, the total dollars of profit went up, but the profit margins are not that high. Which shows that although their revenues and profits are going up in dollar terms, so must their expenses. Otherwise their profit margins would be increasing over their long term averages, not decreasing.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Highmark BCBS doubled their profits from last year. I'm all for companies making money but they'd damn well better not poor-mouth when the evidence is to the contrary.

"Health insurer Highmark Inc. doubled its profits in 2009, according to financial results announced this morning. Highmark said it had net income of $187.7 million, up from $94.1 million in 2008."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/03/profit_doubles_for_health_insu.html

1) Highmark is a NON PROFIT health care provider

2) FROM YOUR LINK, their profit margin is 1.4%. Which means they just barely covered all of their expenses.

If you and Desh are not savvy enough with regards to how businesses operate, then just say so.

I know the left loves to scream about total dollar increases rather than actually looking at relevant data, but it is pathetic if you continue to fail to grasp the simple concept of profit margins.

Also from your link...

As a nonprofit health insurer, Highmark is required to devote some revenues to helping people with lower incomes obtain health care. Highmark said it devoted $143 million to that purpose in 2009, with most of the money going to the state’s adultBasic program that provides free or subsidized coverage to people who couldn’t otherwise afford it.

You just bitch about them because some hack of a 'journalist' shouts 'they doubled their profits in terms of dollars'

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

This is something I'm passionate about because a migraine isn't just a headache. Many people can't take an over the counter prep and wait for it to work because the biological and systemic basis of migraine is different from the average headache and milder drugs don't work. I know a young woman who was on a medical disability for migraines until the new generation of drugs was created. Employers are losing a productive person when that individual has to spend the day (or more) in bed in a darkened room, rather than taking a pill and going to work.

What is the point of pouring money into medical research that helps people with chronic problems, if companies decide they won't allow the drug? My drug is now generic so it's not like the cost is prohibitive. Instead of taking medicine migraineurs can go to the ER and get hooked up to a drip and the company will pay (at least partly) for that. Where's the common sense?

It's not that black and white, IMO, and I'm not asking them to cover everything, whatever that means. Cough drops? Birth control? Viagra?

Cutting medication for chronic pain is just foolhardy. My company will pay for X number of chiropractic visits a year for people with chronic pain, yet balk at paying for migraine medicine. It doesn't compute.

No... YOU are not asking them to cover everything... you are asking them to cover what YOU want covered and the problem is that ... so is everyone else.

As you said, the cost is not prohibitive... so pay it out of your pocket. People who want Viagra can pay out of their pocket... etc... rather than EVERYONE having to be covered for every possible situation... which again is what causes YOUR premiums to go up every year along with everyone else.

Again, they HAVE to draw a line somewhere. No matter where they draw that line, someone will bitch and complain that the company should have included 'one more thing' (translation: What I want)

That is the problem with the current system. Everyone wants to go in and pay nothing when they visit the doctor, they want it all covered so they never have to pay 'out of pocket'.... then they bitch when they get their premium increases.

 

[Bonestorm]

No... YOU are not asking them to cover everything... you are asking them to cover what YOU want covered and the problem is that ... so is everyone else.

As you said, the cost is not prohibitive... so pay it out of your pocket. People who want Viagra can pay out of their pocket... etc... rather than EVERYONE having to be covered for every possible situation... which again is what causes YOUR premiums to go up every year along with everyone else.

Again, they HAVE to draw a line somewhere. No matter where they draw that line, someone will bitch and complain that the company should have included 'one more thing' (translation: What I want)

That is the problem with the current system. Everyone wants to go in and pay nothing when they visit the doctor, they want it all covered so they never have to pay 'out of pocket'.... then they bitch when they get their premium increases.

So insurance would be cheaper if it didn't cover things. Thanks for that brilliant insight.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

So insurance would be cheaper if it didn't cover things. Thanks for that brilliant insight.

lol... if you could get your dem friends to understand that simple concept, I wouldn't have to be explaining it to them.

Question for you:

Do you think insurance should be there to cover catastrophic care and preventative care or should everyone's plan also include things like medication for migraines, viagra, and every other thing that people 'might' need regardless of expense?

Obviously that is a bit of a loaded question... so basically tweak it to what you think it should be.

In my opinion, we should go back to the higher deductible individual plans and pay out of pocket for everything up to that deductible, with the exception of preventative care (annual check ups/prenatal visits)

 

[wiseones2cents]

Thanks for the input. Now I will share my experience with the new health care legislation. Last week, my employer informed me that I may have to start paying part of my health insurance premium due to increased costs associated with health care legislation. So much for "Affordable Care Act."

Though from what I understand? You receive a much wider range of coverage. Do you think its worth the extra few dollars?

The only problem I see is the fact that the insurance companies still hold all the cards. Whose to say they will not find another "excuse" to raise premiums, when things start to stabilize.....

 

[wiseones2cents]

Though from what I understand? You receive a much wider range of coverage. Do you think its worth the extra few dollars?

The only problem I see is the fact that the insurance companies still hold all the cards. Whose to say they will not find another "excuse" to raise premiums, when things start to stabilize.....

Not to mention you are helping to pay for your less fortunate fellow American with real serious issues. GOD forbid you ever get one. Then you will understand.

 

[Damocles]

Illegals?

And it doesn't change the insurance you have currently unless your plan is shittier than the minimum.

Which ignores the fact that current plans are being priced right out of the market by the massive increase due to the bill's passage.

The reality is, this will pretty much force every American into worse coverage than they had previously while not even covering the people that Obama promised would be covered. And the 5% are not "illegals", do you even remember the argument "for" this piece of crap at all?

The "plan" doesn't do what it was sold to do, it makes everybody's coverage extensively more expensive, it will force people into ever crappier government-approved coverage plans while STILL not covering your imaginary woman's child and "curing" her leukemia.

Pelosi was right about one thing, people would "find out" what was in it. The problem was she was too stupid to realize that people aren't willing to accept second-rate crap coverage forced on them in the name of "progress" as a valid substitute for actually covering the people without coverage...

 

[evince]

Why are you guys pretending the insurance cos were not raising prices and reducing coverage WHILE making better profits for at decade or more?

To pretend the prices were never going to rise agaimn without this legislation is preposturous

 

[evince]

http://phoenix.injuryboard.com/misc...its-to-top-sixty-billion.aspx?googleid=207530


Insurance Company Profits to Top Sixty Billion
Staff Writer ContributorPosted by Staff Writer October 20, 2006 10:47 PM

 

[evince]

http://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2010/11/15/insurance-company-profits-up-41-percent/


insurance company profits up 41 percent
health subcommittee chairman calls insurers to pass excessive profits on to customers by cutting premiums
By Chuck Smith-Dewey
healthinsurance.org founder

November 15, 2010

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

http://phoenix.injuryboard.com/misc...its-to-top-sixty-billion.aspx?googleid=207530


Insurance Company Profits to Top Sixty Billion
Staff Writer ContributorPosted by Staff Writer October 20, 2006 10:47 PM

again... you talk about the profits in terms of dollars because it sounds 'cool'.... again... look at the profit MARGINS....

$60 Billion sounds like a lot until you compare it to the trillions of dollars in the insurance industry. They are not making high profit margins no matter how many moronic articles you post.

This is the same stupid shit that liberals did when oil companies posted profits. All they talked about was a companies 'record profits'. Ignoring M&A activity, ignoring the size and scope of the industry and ignoring the actual profit margins of the companies they were bitching about.

 

[evince]

That 41% of profits is not even a full year super.

The HCI cos are still raping us no matter how much you want to pretend they are not.