They said he’d never be released!

QP! said:
No they are not "findings" of guilt of any kind. You are LYING. They are findings of the sufficiency to hold him pending him getting a hearing for deportation as part of his due process.



Again you lying as this DOES negate your lies about what the court finding say with citations included.


--------------------

  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
Click to expand...
Being a gang member is not a crime so of course he hasn't been charged for that

My God u are a stupid fuck
 
QP! said:
No they are not "findings" of guilt of any kind. You are LYING. They are findings of the sufficiency to hold him pending him getting a hearing for deportation as part of his due process.



Again you lying as this DOES negate your lies about what the court finding say with citations included.


--------------------

  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
Click to expand...
It isn't a crime to be a gang member. It is a finding of the court that goes into the PSI as an enhancement for sentencing guidelines. He was adjudicated a member of MS 13 and that enhancement made him more deportable. It is YOU that doesn't get it. He was found guilty of being in the US illegally and one of the court's findings post hearing / trial was he's a gangster in MS 13. The court found that to be the case. Those are legal findings of fact, even if they are not chargeable legal offenses. It falls in the same category as say someone being found guilty of bank robbery who has a history of drug and alcohol abuse. Those are factors that can enhance a sentence or otherwise modify it.

He had and has an order of deportation against him. The only thing on the table open to negotiation at this point is where he gets deported to. He doesn't want to go to El Salvador because he knows damn well he'll end up in CECOT because of his gang affiliation.

That judges in the US have ordered him returned to the US has just fucked him over far worse than he was previously facing. Now the feds are going to try him for human smuggling and if they get a guilty verdict he's looking at a serious felony in addition to his previous record and will still eventually be deported.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It isn't a crime to be a gang member. It is a finding of the court that goes into the PSI as an enhancement for sentencing guidelines. He was adjudicated a member of MS 13 and that enhancement made him more deportable. It is YOU that doesn't get it. He was found guilty of being in the US illegally and one of the court's findings post hearing / trial was he's a gangster in MS 13. The court found that to be the case. Those are legal findings of fact, even if they are not chargeable legal offenses. It falls in the same category as say someone being found guilty of bank robbery who has a history of drug and alcohol abuse. Those are factors that can enhance a sentence or otherwise modify it.

He had and has an order of deportation against him. The only thing on the table open to negotiation at this point is where he gets deported to. He doesn't want to go to El Salvador because he knows damn well he'll end up in CECOT because of his gang affiliation.

That judges in the US have ordered him returned to the US has just fucked him over far worse than he was previously facing. Now the feds are going to try him for human smuggling and if they get a guilty verdict he's looking at a serious felony in addition to his previous record and will still eventually be deported.
Click to expand...

A "finding" that something is enough to get a warrant or hold someone pre trial or adjudication IS NOT a finding of any form of guilt or liability.


YOu are LYING trying to represent the court saying 'yes we can hold him pre his deportation hearing' as something that more than that.

Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
------------------------------------------

they found one thing and one thing only and that is they had sufficient testimony to keep him in custody pre hearing.

Just as being held on bail does not equal guilt of anything and you could be freed when the guilty person is found.

You, Terry, being an idiot can continue to say 'yes but they held a hearing and rendered a finding they could hold him on bail' and pretend that equals quilt BUT IT DOES NOT.
 
QP! said:
A "finding" that something is enough to get a warrant or hold someone pre trial or adjudication IS NOT a finding of any form of guilt or liability.


YOu are LYING trying to represent the court saying 'yes we can hold him pre his deportation hearing' as something that more than that.

Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
------------------------------------------

they found one thing and one thing only and that is they had sufficient testimony to keep him in custody pre hearing.

Just as being held on bail does not equal guilt of anything and you could be freed when the guilty person is found.

You, Terry, being an idiot can continue to say 'yes but they held a hearing and rendered a finding they could hold him on bail' and pretend that equals quilt BUT IT DOES NOT.
Click to expand...
There is NO CRIME chargeable for simply being a gang member. He was found by the courts repeatedly to be a gang member of MS 13 and that finding of FACT is used in determining bail, sentencing guidelines, and the like. He doesn't have to be convicted of it for it to count,

when-my-hard-earned-iron-nails-sink-v0-ohivn7y35dea1.png
 
T. A. Gardner said:
There is NO CRIME chargeable for simply being a gang member. He was found by the courts repeatedly to be a gang member of MS 13 and that finding of FACT is used in determining bail, sentencing guidelines, and the like. He doesn't have to be convicted of it for it to count,
Click to expand...
You do not get to call anyone dense when you so stupid.

There was NO FINDING he was a gang member.

The FINDING was the accusations were sufficient to HOLD HIM for a trial or adjudication.

It is the same type of FINDING that is rendered when a judge agrees you can be held for bail before a trial.


YOu are not FOUND to have done anything wrong in that finding. the finding is the judge or the administrator saying they have presented enough to hold you as we then determine guilt or culpibility or not.
 
Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
 
QP! said:
Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
Click to expand...

Politifact (and wedding venue) obviously is wrong. He has been formally adjudicated a member of MS 13. Being in a gang is not a chargeable offense so of course there's no criminal conviction. Their conclusion is wrong.
QP! said:
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
Click to expand...
So what? All that means is that judge found the MS 13 finding not sufficient for bail bond purposes. That changes nothing. That is, simple membership doesn't equate to a risk for bond. It doesn't absolve Garcia of being a member. That's a false conclusion.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Politifact (and wedding venue) obviously is wrong. He has been formally adjudicated a member of MS 13. Being in a gang is not a chargeable offense so of course there's no criminal conviction. Their conclusion is wrong.

So what? All that means is that judge found the MS 13 finding not sufficient for bail bond purposes. That changes nothing. That is, simple membership doesn't equate to a risk for bond. It doesn't absolve Garcia of being a member. That's a false conclusion.
Click to expand...
LIES.

He has NOT been formally adjugated as being a member of MS13.

There was no adjudication of that and only a hearing to see if he could be held (bail) before any such trial or adjudication.

Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
 
QP! said:
LIES.

He has NOT been formally adjugated as being a member of MS13.

There was no adjudication of that and only a hearing to see if he could be held (bail) before any such trial or adjudication.

Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
Click to expand...
Just because of the opinions of three Leftist, Trump hating, source's OPINIONs you have nothing. They're wrong, you are wrong. Legally, Garcia is a member of MS 13.

DHS says he is a member of MS 13


The Supreme Court doesn't address this issue in their finding:


The DOJ says he is a member of MS 13


So, the actual legal authorities in this case either don't address the issue or find Garcia is a member of MS 13. Against that, you have the opinions of a handful of journalists and assorted reporters at clearly anti-Trump biased news sources arguing differently.
 
Last edited:
T. A. Gardner said:
Just because of the opinions of three Leftist, Trump hating, source's OPINIONs you have nothing. They're wrong, you are wrong. Legally, Garcia is a member of MS 13.

DHS says he is a member of MS 13


The Supreme Court doesn't address this issue in their finding:


The DOJ says he is a member of MS 13


So, the actual legal authorities in this case either don't address the issue or find Garcia is a member of MS 13. Against that, you have the opinions of a handful of journalists and assorted reporters at clearly anti-Trump biased news sources arguing differently.
Click to expand...
FALSE.

You are lying and stupid.

Again being held pre trial or adjudication based on a finding that you can be held, is what makes a stupid person like you assume he is guilty of a finding.

The only finding offered was that the people who said he could be held were believed as credible enough. That is it. Just like with bail or an arrest warrant that is given on a similar finding by a judge or magistrate THAT DOES NOT mean the person is guilty of anything. They HAVE NOT faced any due process or a trial or hearing YET.
 
Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
 
QP! said:
Again...


  • No criminal conviction or formal adjudication     has ever declared Abrego García an MS-13 member. He has never been charged, tried, or convicted for gang membership. StatesmanThe GuardianPolitiFact
  • In immigration bond hearings (which use a lower standard than criminal trials), a judge denied bond in 2019, finding the government’s assertion—that a confidential informant claimed he was affiliated with MS-13—was “trustworthy enough” for custody purposes. These are not legal findings of guilty any more than being held on bond prior to trial is a finding of guilt. The findings were upheld on appeal. However, such rulings do not equate to legal confirmation of membership. PolitiFact+1
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone has ever been "tried and convicted for gang membership", can you point out the USC statute that makes "gang membership" illegal?
 
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