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#AMERICAISDEAD
About what?
The world has never been safer....
- Thread starter NOVA
- Start date
About what?
we are not using hegemony - where do we have power? we seek stability.
even the neocons with their screwed up war went in to establish democracy in the heart of the ME..
why? to get rid of Saddam and his invasions/exploitations. Saddam rocked the established order.
To be clear it was an INSANE reason to invade -but that was the neocon logic.
We back SA because of the long term special relationship -but also as a counter to Iran.
One thing Obama wanted to do was expand ties to Iran to have a more balanced ME policy.
Instead it backfired, and Iran is now the single most threat to it's neighbors. It's all but colonized Iraq.
US uses power projection with naval bases in Bahrain and airbases to keep the place from blowing up.
We'll get used to Russia having Syria as a client state ( more then just Tartus was)- but Iran is not in this for stability.
It prefers stability but will take empire any way it can.
Where did you get the idea that we went to war to establish democracy in the heart of the ME..? Thats left wing revisionist history....
Kerry: "I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him. "
Even Kerry got it right.....
do you not believe what Clinton was saying all during his admin. about WMD and Saddam being a threat....long before Bush came along.
Yes, on our terms.. They can bring stability, like they have done there for 1,000's of years, now we are forcing it on the locals from 8,000 miles away..
Do we need to review history?? No, you know exactly what the USA did & the Brits before them, how the frat boys invaded a country & sent this recent crisis in motion.. & now we are the solution???
My God, the locals must think the gods are crazy...Did we forget we supported him in the endeavors??
I think if you ask the ppl that live there, you will hear a different answer-That it is actually the USA & to a lesser extent, it's client in the ME, Israel.
Iran is surrounded by US projections of power & American politicians, including clinton rarely stop threatening sever violence..
Maybe you should judge what we do, not on our "good intentions" but rather on our actions........
It's an endless debate. was WMD's used as a pretext for the neocon war.
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Paul Wolfowicz came right out & said it.
And it's not like it's some fringe theory. PNAC was ultimately the architect for the Iraq War. Think tanks can indulge in whimsical fantasies - but the people in power should know better.
I thought I made it clear the Iraq war was a culmination of neocon's agenda of having our client states there ( reference to your pic)Yes, on our terms.. They can bring stability, like they have done there for 1,000's of years, now we are forcing it on the locals from 8,000 miles away..
Do we need to review history?? No, you know exactly what the USA did & the Brits before them, how the frat boys invaded a country & sent this recent crisis in motion.. & now we are the solution???
I think if you ask the ppl that live there, you will hear a different answer-That it is actually the USA & to a lesser extent, it's client in the ME, Israel.
Iran is surrounded by US projections of power & American politicians, including clinton rarely stop threatening sever violence..
Maybe you should judge what we do, not on our "good intentions" but rather on our actions........
..or getting rid of them when no longer useful
Egypt comes to mind also. same with Libya ( although Qaddafi was very useful -that was a major screw up )
So i'm not in any fashion defending any of that interventionism....but...
fast forward today and the aftermaths - that's what I'm referring to. Yes Iran is in the catbird sat because of the Iraq war.
But it doesn't explain their regional hegemony outside of Iraq , and in NO WAY is the US causative of Iranian regulars in Syria
Or Lebanon; at best you can lay Zionism as a cause for Hezbollah-but Hez is much more then reactions to Israel
It's also because of Iranian support, and weak internal Lebanon's army/politics
And Iran in Yemen..wtf?? it's the soft underbelly of SA ! why are they sending material there?
I'm sure you are correct. I'm not familiar with the Wolfowicz quote -
but as BILL is also saying here we've done a fair share of meddlin.g
Yet ignorant libs hate LE and want the FBI/Police disbanded.
It was sad & stupid.. The common wisdom was these tyrants were useful idiots, they served a purpose & removing them would leave a vacuum that would be filled by radical religious fanatics & that is exactly what happened... Hell, we are still sitting on the grave yard of empires & it is as bad, if not worse than when we got there..
Year after year of bumper opium crops
& the kids back home
Opium has legal therapeutic uses.
I can't recall all the details but didn't obama merely follow the time table set by bush?? If they broke the agreement Americans would be subject to Iraqi laws was another issue..
How long should our occupying forces stay when we are not wanted?? Forever?? & then there is that budget problem
You blame the western countries not doing enoughWhat about the freaking Turks & arabs??
AMericans died liberating kuwait & they donate 10 mill to the campaign?? The price of "a tank"?? saudi Arabia?? They are to busy killing Shia in Yemen to be concerned about daesh.. THey have a lot more @ stake than we do & yet who is caring the heavy load?? It aint the gulf states & many of the ppl there are suspected of even helping daesh..
Many points Trump brings up too.
Why do we even do business with SA and the like? We shouldn't even buy their oil. Their people are true enemies of civilization and support radical Islam.
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Easy for you to say mate, it is amazing how brave people are when they are thousands of miles away.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
It's a confusing debate lol.
Mostly because there was no ONE reason we invaded Iraq. WMD in Iraq turned out to be the intelligence failure of our lifetimes. Though the nagging possibility that Saddam dumped them before the invasion will always linger. Even the Clinton administration thought Saddam needed to go because he had WMD. And Bill Clinton was no neocon---that would be his wife.
The attacks on 9/11 brought home, in an ugly way, the potential for terrorists to do us harm, and the possibility that Saddam would supply terrorists with WMD---was something that a lot of people besides Bush II wasn't going to allow.
Then there was oil. Saddam's propensity to attack his neighbors was a threat to the whole region; and by extension, a huge chunk of our oil supply. The best way to go about making the region more secure would be to depose Saddam and establish democracy.
That's Iraq in a nutshell. For whatever it's worth. It's in the rear view mirror and has been over run by other events in the region that have nothing to do with Bush or neocons.
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I can't recall all the details but didn't obama merely follow the time table set by bush?? If they broke the agreement Americans would be subject to Iraqi laws was another issue..
How long should our occupying forces stay when we are not wanted?? Forever?? & then there is that budget problem
You blame the western countries not doing enough
AMericans died liberating kuwait & they donate 10 mill to the campaign?? The price of "a tank"?? saudi Arabia?? They are to busy killing Shia in Yemen to be concerned about daesh.. THey have a lot more @ stake than we do & yet who is caring the heavy load?? It aint the gulf states & many of the ppl there are suspected of even helping daesh..
It was an arbitrary timetable set by the Bush admin. He assumed a new SOFA would be negotiated, often with less troops and less responsibility. I don't think the Iraqi Govt was planning us pulling every last soldier out all at once.
And if that's what they did want, they are morons.
My strategy to deal with ISIS and Islamic Extremism in general is to go back to supporting secular dictators. First we let Russia/Syria retake Syria and quash ISIL there. Then we let the kurds/Iraqis quash them in Iraq, (already underway).
We also need to put more pressure on "allies" to do more about Islamism. Like cutting some trade with SA. Cutting back funding to NATO, and Japan, and have them start pulling their weight for a change.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
NATO is dated in at least one sense: Soviet/Russian expansionism doesn't threaten Europe and the west---at least like it did in the Cold War: the more immediate threat is radical Islam. A NATO Russian alliance is contradictory under the old paradigm, but such an alliance may come about in countering radical Islam.
I think Trump gets this.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
they lost their lives trying to rebuild Iraq........that does them no disservice........of course I can see why liberals would consider it so.....what I don't understand is why you think claiming the war was a lie isn't a disservice......
Indeed. And it may seem strange, but we can actually be Russia's allie against Radical Islam, and still their foe in Europe expansion. We don't need to allies with them everywhere.
Assad is a bad dictator, but I will take an Assad Syria over and ISIL Syria anyday.
The world has never been safer....IF you live in Obama's Fantasyland.....
For those of us in the real world,
A suicide bomber has killed at least 70 people as they gathered to mourn a murdered journalist in Pakistan.
The devastating attack took place at a hospital in Quettain, in the violence-plagued southwestern province of Baluchistan.
The bomber struck as more than 100 grievers, mostly lawyers and journalists, crowded into the emergency department to accompany the body of a prominent lawyer, who had been shot and killed in the city earlier in the day.
"There are many wounded, so the death toll could rise," said Rehmat Saleh Baloch, the provincial health minister.
For those of us in the real world,
A suicide bomber has killed at least 70 people as they gathered to mourn a murdered journalist in Pakistan.
The devastating attack took place at a hospital in Quettain, in the violence-plagued southwestern province of Baluchistan.
The bomber struck as more than 100 grievers, mostly lawyers and journalists, crowded into the emergency department to accompany the body of a prominent lawyer, who had been shot and killed in the city earlier in the day.
"There are many wounded, so the death toll could rise," said Rehmat Saleh Baloch, the provincial health minister.
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Do you think that there used to be no violence in the world?
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
Has this been answered?