The U.S. Is Not Drowning In Debt

[Liberty]

How long before are debt doubles at are current rate of borrowing? Is 150% or 200% of GDP debt dangerous.

It won't take long.

One of the things the reps ran on in 2010 was to defund Obamacare. They got a lot of votes because of such comments.

And now they've funded it twice.

JUST AS EXPECTED.

 

[Rune]

Default on what?

Seriously?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I DID. Some information I posted was dated (2007) prior to the Bush/Republican CRASH.

Like I said, you are a complete hack. The crash was caused in large part due to the deregulation that occurred under CLINTON. Bush was an idiot... no question. The Dem Congress in 2007/2008 were beyond pathetic... no question.

And NO, you did not answer my questions. You posted some opinions from Walker that were quite silly. Comparing it to 1946 and saying, 'well gee, its not as high as the highest point in our history, so thus it isn't high' is fucking retarded.

But, I also posted information where in February, David Walker, former United States Comptroller General who is part of a debt scare-mongering tour ADMITS our debt level is not actually high. He used 63% in February. Do you REALLY expect he would change his story at 68%?

I could care less what Walker stated. Tell us genius, as you pointed out.... the long term average is 43%. It was UNDER that level in 2007. In less than four years it has balooned to over 68%. It has risen 5% just since February. Notice the trend here moron?

To my surprise, Walker began on a disarming note: he acknowledged that the level of our national debt is not actually high. In relation to GDP, it is only a bit over half of what it was in 1946. And to give more credit, the number Walker used, 63 percent, refers to debt held by the public, which is the correct construct

Again, it is NOT the 'correct construct' when talking about our debt in relation to the principal that is due to be paid back you idiot. Unless AGAIN.... ARE YOU SUGGESTING WE DON'T NEED TO PAY SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, MEDICAID ETC...??????

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yes, and as we very well know, the right never spends, spends, spends...they are totally innocent and do not have a hand in the debt that has risen over the past 30 years! They are so clean and pure and thrifty!

Tell us Rana.... WHO stated they had no role in it?

 

[cawacko]

I would like to take Bfgrn's word that this is not a problem but it doesn't really pass the sniff test.


US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury


US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government's debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.

Treasury borrowing jumped Tuesday, the data showed, immediately after President Barack Obama signed into law an increase in the debt ceiling as the country's spending commitments reached a breaking point and it threatened to default on its debt.

The new borrowing took total public debt to $14.58 trillion, over end-2010 GDP of $14.53 trillion, and putting it in a league with highly indebted countries like Italy and Belgium.

Public debt subject to the official debt limit -- a slightly tighter definition -- was $14.53 trillion as of the end of Tuesday, rising from the previous official cap of $14.29 trillion a day earlier.

Treasury had used extraordinary measures to hold under the $14.29 trillion cap since reaching it on May 16, while politicians battled over it and over addressing the country's bloating deficit.

The official limit was hiked $400 billion on Tuesday and will be increased in stages over the next 18 months.

The last time US debt topped the size of its annual economy was in 1947 just after World War II. By 1981 it had fallen to 32.5 percent.

Ratings agencies have warned the country to reduce its debt-to-GDP ratio quickly or facing losing its coveted AAA debt rating.

Moody's said Tuesday that the government needed to stabilize the ratio at 73 percent by 2015 "to ensure that the long-run fiscal trajectory remains compatible with a AAA rating."


http://news.yahoo.com/us-aaa-rating-still-under-threat-204040123.html

 

[Annie]

I would like to take Bfgrn's word that this is not a problem but it doesn't really pass the sniff test.


US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury


US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government's debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.

Treasury borrowing jumped Tuesday, the data showed, immediately after President Barack Obama signed into law an increase in the debt ceiling as the country's spending commitments reached a breaking point and it threatened to default on its debt.

The new borrowing took total public debt to $14.58 trillion, over end-2010 GDP of $14.53 trillion, and putting it in a league with highly indebted countries like Italy and Belgium.

Public debt subject to the official debt limit -- a slightly tighter definition -- was $14.53 trillion as of the end of Tuesday, rising from the previous official cap of $14.29 trillion a day earlier.

Treasury had used extraordinary measures to hold under the $14.29 trillion cap since reaching it on May 16, while politicians battled over it and over addressing the country's bloating deficit.

The official limit was hiked $400 billion on Tuesday and will be increased in stages over the next 18 months.

The last time US debt topped the size of its annual economy was in 1947 just after World War II. By 1981 it had fallen to 32.5 percent.

Ratings agencies have warned the country to reduce its debt-to-GDP ratio quickly or facing losing its coveted AAA debt rating.

Moody's said Tuesday that the government needed to stabilize the ratio at 73 percent by 2015 "to ensure that the long-run fiscal trajectory remains compatible with a AAA rating."


http://news.yahoo.com/us-aaa-rating-still-under-threat-204040123.html

More warnings, actually related to above in a very scary manner:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43984077

US Less Than 3 Years Away From Being Greece: Walker
Published: Tuesday, 2 Aug 2011 | 10:28 AM ET

By: Jeff Cox
CNBC.com Staff Writer

The US is only a few years away from reaching the same debt levels that pushed Greece to the brink of ruin, former comptroller general and head of the Comeback America Initiative David Walker said.

As the ratio of its debt to gross national product eclipsed 100 percent and surged toward 150 percent, Greece has twice in the last two years nearly defaulted on its debt. Only successive bailout packages from the European Union and International Monetary Fund prevented catastrophe.

When tolling up all the US debts [cnbc explains] , including huge unfunded liabilities to Social Security and Medicare, the US is on dangerous ground, Walker said in a CNBC interview.

"We are less than three years away from where Greece had its debt crisis as to where they were from debt to GDP," he said.

The US is nearing the 100 percent threshold which historically shaves about one percentage point off GDP, which was just 1.3 percent for the second quarter and 0.4 percent for the first quarter.

With the recent increase in the debt ceiling and continued higher budget deficits at the federal level, the US is on course for its own crisis, Walker said.

"We are not exempt from a debt crisis," he said. "We're never going to default, because we can print money. At the same point in time, we have serious interest rate risk, we have serious currency risk, we have serious inflation risk over time. If it happens, it will be sudden and it will be very painful."

He spoke as Congress is putting the final touches on approving an increase in the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling, a move deemed critical to avoiding a default. Standard & Poor's has warned it still may revoke the coveted triple-A rating for US debt, a move that some fear would increase interest rates and further add to the economic slowdown. [cnbc explains]

While Walker said credit agency downgrades are generally a "lag indicator"—meaning that they look backwards rather than forwards—the Greece situation should stand as a template for where the US could be heading in terms of credit.

Though the US has the lowest average interest rate and lowest duration on its debt of any developed nation, it faces significant rate risk if it continues on the same path.

Greece now pays nearly 15 percent interest on its 10-year notes, while Italy pays 6.13 percent and Spain 6.38 percent. The latter two peripheral euro nations also face serious debt problems though not on a scale with Greece. [cnbc explains]

"We should recognize that this could be a leading indicator for us," Walker said. "You can see what happens to interest rates if you lose confidence. They can go up very dramatically."

 

[Bfgrn]

Like I said, you are a complete hack. The crash was caused in large part due to the deregulation that occurred under CLINTON. Bush was an idiot... no question. The Dem Congress in 2007/2008 were beyond pathetic... no question.

And NO, you did not answer my questions. You posted some opinions from Walker that were quite silly. Comparing it to 1946 and saying, 'well gee, its not as high as the highest point in our history, so thus it isn't high' is fucking retarded.



I could care less what Walker stated. Tell us genius, as you pointed out.... the long term average is 43%. It was UNDER that level in 2007. In less than four years it has balooned to over 68%. It has risen 5% just since February. Notice the trend here moron?



Again, it is NOT the 'correct construct' when talking about our debt in relation to the principal that is due to be paid back you idiot. Unless AGAIN.... ARE YOU SUGGESTING WE DON'T NEED TO PAY SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, MEDICAID ETC...??????

Yea, there is a 'trend'; it is called a deep recession, shrinking revenues and millions of people who lost their job due to NOTHING they did wrong. WHAT HAPPENS to people without a job and not enough job openings to replace the one they had? Do they evaporate? Well now they HAVE. The tearrorists that held this country hostage just made them evaporate as far as our government is concerned. They are on their own. So it is about to get a LOT worse. The tearrorists who held this country hostage just sealed our fate...austerity = an even more contracted economy, NOT GROWTH.

Let's go back to the Great Depression era and SEE what the tearrorists have prescribed. They have decided that Hoover and Mellon were right and FDR was wrong.

Can you READ a chart?

 

[Mr. T]

I suppose if the chart included Obammy it would look like Hoover.

 

[cawacko]

I suppose if the chart included Obammy it would look like Hoover.

Growth in the first seven quarters under Obama has been 2.6%. How do you figure that to be a negative number?

 

[Mr. T]

And what has happened after 7 quarters? 1.3 while China is 9.1 go figure the commies are beating us.

 

[Bfgrn]

And what has happened after 7 quarters? 1.3 while China is 9.1 go figure the commies are beating us.

China's taking a page out of FDR's play book. Go figure. China's government is investing in the future.

China’s parliament, the National People’s Congress (NPC), recently considered a 'New Energy Industry Development Strategy’ which is to be adopted as a major policy document by the State Council (some changes are expected due to the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster).

According to this proposed development strategy, during 2011-2020, China will invest about $800 billion in seven green energy areas, namely, wind, solar, nuclear, bio-energy, hydro, coal cleaning and smart power grid.

China’s green energy is expected to generate 290 GW power (wind 52 per cent, nuclear 24 per cent, bio-energy 10 per cent, solar and others 7 per cent each) in 2020. This would be equivalent to 17 per cent of China’s total generation capacity and 15 per cent of the country’s total energy consumption.

China’s rapid growth in green energy has been driven by two key factors. First, green energy development in government policies has been promoted as a strategy of providing energy security for the country’s rapidly-expanding economy in the future. Energy prices have gone up rapidly in recent decades. It would be a challenging task to fuel the Chinese economy which overtook the Japanese economy in 2010 and is expected to surpass the American economy within a decade. Competition for energy will be fierce as resources in the world are disappearing quickly and in the meantime, another Asian giant, India is rising too.

Green China? You'd better believe it

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Yea, there is a 'trend'; it is called a deep recession, shrinking revenues and millions of people who lost their job due to NOTHING they did wrong. WHAT HAPPENS to people without a job and not enough job openings to replace the one they had? Do they evaporate? Well now they HAVE. The tearrorists that held this country hostage just made them evaporate as far as our government is concerned. They are on their own. So it is about to get a LOT worse. The tearrorists who held this country hostage just sealed our fate...austerity = an even more contracted economy, NOT GROWTH.

Let's go back to the Great Depression era and SEE what the tearrorists have prescribed. They have decided that Hoover and Mellon were right and FDR was wrong.

Can you READ a chart?

hey dumbass, the TEA party didn't get anything they wanted, but you dems and reps sure as hell did, so how does that equal having your fate sealed? this coming double dip recession and possible future depression is on YOUR shoulders, dipshit, not ours. we tried to tell you and even force you to do the right thing, you refused to listen. even went so far as to terrorize the american people yourselves that our plan would lead to what was coming, yet YOUR plan is what's bringing this about now.

 

[Bfgrn]

hey dumbass, the TEA party didn't get anything they wanted, but you dems and reps sure as hell did, so how does that equal having your fate sealed? this coming double dip recession and possible future depression is on YOUR shoulders, dipshit, not ours. we tried to tell you and even force you to do the right thing, you refused to listen. even went so far as to terrorize the american people yourselves that our plan would lead to what was coming, yet YOUR plan is what's bringing this about now.

The tea party got what they wanted...austerity. They now own the economy. They are the most ignorant group of people to EVER walk the earth. They are totally brainwashed creatures with the brain the size of a pea, and a heart half that size.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The tea party got what they wanted...austerity. They now own the economy. They are the most ignorant group of people to EVER walk the earth. They are totally brainwashed creatures with the brain the size of a pea, and a heart half that size.

you are a bonafide brain eaten moron. how the hell do you figure that TEA got what they wanted when what they wanted was NO DEBT CEILING RAISE?????????????

 

[Bfgrn]

you are a bonafide brain eaten moron. how the hell do you figure that TEA got what they wanted when what they wanted was NO DEBT CEILING RAISE?????????????

OHHHHHHHHHH, that's different. They wanted to immediately destroy America and plunge us into a depression, they settled for a slow and painful death. They are TERRORISTS you fucking asshole!

 

[cawacko]

The tea party got what they wanted...austerity. They now own the economy. They are the most ignorant group of people to EVER walk the earth. They are totally brainwashed creatures with the brain the size of a pea, and a heart half that size.

A group of about 70 members of the House (I have no idea what the actual number is) and maybe 4 Senate members now own the economy? I find that difficult to believe. Did you think Gingrich owned the economy when he and the Republicans tried to force cuts on Clinton?

 

[Liberty]

What neither side seems to recognize — or at least acknowledge — is that what matters about the debt isn’t the dollar amount per se, but how much it costs us to service it. And by that measure, the debt isn’t nearly as big a problem as it’s being made out to be.

Yes, the federal debt has grown by nearly $3 trillion dollars in the past three years. And yes, the dollar amount of that debt is quite large (in excess of $14 trillion and headed toward $15 trillion should the ceiling be raised). But large numbers are not the problem. The U.S. has a large economy (slightly larger than that debt number). And, crucially, we have very low interest rates.

Because of those low rates, the amount the U.S. government pays to service its debt is, relative to the size of the economy, less than it was paying throughout the boom years of the 1980s and 1990s and for most of the last decade. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that net interest on the debt (which is what the government pays to service it) would be $225 billion for fiscal year 2011. The latest figures put that a bit higher, so let’s call it $250 billion. That’s about 1.6% of American output, which is lower than at any point since the 1970s – except for 2003 through 2005, when it was closer to 1.4%.

Under Ronald Reagan, the first George Bush, and Bill Clinton, payments on federal debt often got above 3% of GDP. Under Bush the second, payments were about where they are now. Yet suddenly, we are in a near collective hysteria.

The U.S. Is Not Drowning In Debt | Moneyland | TIME.com

Yes!

The U.S. Is Drowning In Debt.

And the U.S. Government too.

 

[Bfgrn]

A group of about 70 members of the House (I have no idea what the actual number is) and maybe 4 Senate members now own the economy? I find that difficult to believe. Did you think Gingrich owned the economy when he and the Republicans tried to force cuts on Clinton?

Well, they used extortion and it worked. Shame on Obama for being a spineless president.

 

[Damocles]

And what has happened after 7 quarters? 1.3 while China is 9.1 go figure the commies are beating us.

Interesting that they are not borrowing money like mad for that.... Maybe, just maybe, you don't solve a debt crisis with more debt. And Obama needs to understand if the (close to) 20% of real unemployment were solved they'd have revenue to pay for his programs. Getting rid of the mortgage deduction will not solve our problems, we need people to be at work in the private sector. (spending 100,000K a year to collect 2K in taxes from somebody will also not get you out of a debt crisis.)

Gawd almighty... We need the Balanced Budget Amendment to save ourselves from the idiots we keep electing.

 

[Liberty]

you are a bonafide brain eaten moron. how the hell do you figure that TEA got what they wanted when what they wanted was NO DEBT CEILING RAISE?????????????

Don't forget some real job killers like the EPA, Obamacare, and the Department of Energy.

The Reps ran in 2010 on defunding Obamacare, and look what they"ve done. Funded it twice sense then.