The insanity of blaming Islam

OnearmSword said:
The 11th commandment, The truth shall not be printed in capital letters.
At least not according to people with a very limited mind!:)
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In my experience people on the internet who use upper case tend to be unhinged, now you may be the exception. However I haven't seen anything thus far to persuade me otherwise.
 
christiefan915 said:
I suggest you stop getting your info from the likes of Craig Winn and read actual Islamic scholars.
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Far better for you to be educated. Read this.. and show me where Islam confirms Jesus's sacrifice and bringing of Salvation to mankind. You can not because it does not.

http://www.muslim.org/islam/deathj-5.htm

The Death of Jesus
according to Islamic sources - 5
by Maulana Hafiz Sher Mohammad

5. Views of modern Muslim scholars (1)

I. Scholars of Arabia

1. In his Quranic commentary, Allama Abdul Rahman Sa‘di writes:
"God honoured Jesus by causing his disciples to spread in the world, in his life-time and after his death (mamat)."

(Tafsir al-Manan, published in Makka)
2. In The Message of the Quran, published by the Muslim World League of Makka in 1964, the author, Muhammad Asad, translates the verse 3:55 of the Quran in the following English words:
"Lo! God said: O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and exalt thee unto Me."

Verse 5:117 is rendered as:

"And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt amongst them; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper. For Thou art witness unto everything".

In the footnote to verse 4:157 the translator elucidates:

"Thus the Quran categorically denies the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. There exist, among Muslims, many fanciful legends telling us that at the last moment God substituted for Jesus a person closely resembling him (according to some accounts, that person was Judas), who was subsequently crucified in his place. However, none of these legends finds the slightest support in the Quran or in authentic Traditions, and the stories produced in this connection by the classical commentators of the Quran must be summarily rejected."

The next footnote contains the statement:

"Nowhere in the Quran is there any warrant for the popular belief of many Muslims that God has ‘taken up’ Jesus bodily into heaven."

II. Egyptian Scholars

1. The famous Egyptian reformist personality Mufti Muhammad Abduh believed that Jesus had died:
i. "In the Tafsir al-Manar, the teacher and Imam (Muhammad Abduh), after taking the apparent meaning of the verse, has stated that tawaffa bears its obvious significance, i.e., causing to die. The raising (raf‘) comes after that, and it is spiritual elevation."

(Qasas al-Anbiya by Abdul Wahab al-Najar, p. 428)
ii. "Tawaffa here means causing to die, as in the obvious and comprehensible significance."

(Al-Manar)

2. Allama Rashid Raza, the famous disciple of Mufti Muhammad Abduh, writes:
"Hence Jesus’ escape to India and his death in that country is not against reason and sense."

(Quranic Commentary by Al-Sayyid Rashid Raza, part vi, pp. 42, 43)

3. Mahmud Shaltut, former Mufti of Egypt and ex-Rector of al-Azhar University, Cairo, writes:
i. "There is no authority in the Quran or the Sunna which can satisfy the heart upon the belief that Jesus was taken up to heaven with his body and that he is still alive there and that he shall descend therefrom to earth in the last days."

(Al-Fatawa, published by Al-Idara al-‘Ama lil-Saqafat al-Islamiyya bil-Azhar, pp. 52-58)

ii. "The Quranic verses in this connection indicate that God had promised Jesus that He would cause him to die at the appointed time, and elevate him to Himself, and protect him from the disbelievers. This promise has been fulfilled. His enemies could not kill him or crucify him; instead, God caused him to die at the end of his appointed term and elevated him to Himself."

(Ibid.)

4. Al-Ustaz Mustafa al-Maraghi:

i. Commentating on the verse, Ya ‘Isa inni mutawaffi-ka, he notes:

"In this verse is the glad tiding of his (Jesus’) deliverance from their (the Jewish) plot and his life reaching its appointed term. They would not be able to harm him as they intended by their evil plan. Tawaffa means the ordinary death, and raf‘ (elevating) is for the spirit after death. The meaning is ‘I will cause you to die (mumitu-ka), and after death (maut) I will establish you in an exalted position in My presence’, as God has said of the prophet Idris: ‘He elevated him to a high state’."

(Tafsir al-Maraghi, part iii, p. 165)

ii. In explanation of verse 3:143 of the Quran, he writes:
"It means that Muhammad is but mortal. There have been messengers before him, so they died, and some, like Zacharia and Yahya, were killed. It was not ordained for anyone of them to live forever. So if he (Holy Prophet Muhammad) dies, as had Moses, Jesus, and other prophets died …."

(Ibid., part iv, p. 87)

5. Allama Muhammad Farid Wajadi notes the views of some research scholars as:

"Others have said that God caused Jesus to die as he causes people in general to die. Then his spirit was raised to God, as is shown by the words: Inni mutawaffi-ka wa rafi‘u-ka ilayya."

(Da’irat-ul-Mu‘arif, Islamic Encyclopedia, vol. vi, p. 784)

6. The famous Lebanese scholar Ahmad Al-‘Ajuz writes:
"Jesus certainly died on earth according to God’s words inni mutawaffi-ka which mean ‘I will cause you to die’ (mumitu-ka). Death (maut) is something that is bound to happen, as God said through Jesus’ tongue: ‘Peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I die’."

(Signed: Ahmad al- ‘Ajuz)

7. Al-Ustaz Abdul Karim al-Sharif writes:

"As the Quran has mentioned, God caused the Messiah to die physically, and raised him to Himself and purified him, just as He causes us to die, raises us to Himself, and purifies us."

(Al-Nafkhat al-Ula min al-Ta’wil)

8. Al-Ustaz Abdul Wahab al-Najjar comments on the Quranic verse Kuntu ‘alai-him shahid-an ma dumtu fi-him (5:117), as follows:
"Jesus watched over his followers and gave them good exhortations till his death (wafat). After that, God was the Watcher over them."

(Qasas al-Anbiya, 4th edition, 1956)

9. In his article Hal al-Quran Mu‘jiza (‘Is the Quran a miracle?’), Dr Ahmad Zaki Abu Shadi writes:

"It is a well known teaching of Islam that God is everywhere, and that He is the light of the heaven and the earth. So the words ‘He raised him (Jesus) to Himself’ do not have the physical meaning that He lifted him up to heaven, as is the Christian belief. … Raf‘ here means to rescue and to honour, as opposed to a degraded death on the cross in the manner in which criminals are executed. Other interpretations that some Muslim commentators have adopted are more akin to poetry than to sound logic, and the reliability of these commentators’ scholarship is rather limited."

(Al-Mawahib Azar, Argentina, March 1955)

10. Egypt’s famous literary figure, Al-Ustaz ‘Abbas Mahmud al-‘Aqad, writes:

"In this connection there is a historical report which cannot be ignored because it deserves great attention. This report relates to the tomb to be found in the Khanyar area of the capital of Kashmir, and known as the grave of the Prophet or the grave of Jesus. It is recorded in the book Tarikh al-‘Azma, written about 200 years ago, that the grave is that of a Prophet called Yuz Asaf. The people of Kashmir report from their ancestors that this prophet came to that land two thousand years ago."

(Hayat al-Masih fil-Tarikh wa Kushuf al-‘Asr al-Hadith, p. 213)

11. In a poem in praise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Allama Ibn Rashid al-Baghdadi writes:
Mahauna bi-ka al-adyan lau ‘asha rusulu-na
la-ja’a-ka ‘Isa tabi‘-an wa Kalim

"Through you all other religions were superseded; had previous prophets been still alive, Jesus and Moses would have been your followers."

(Diwan Ma‘dan al-Azafat, published in Beirut, p. 28)

III. Iranian Scholars
1. Iran’s famous religious scholar Zain al-‘Abidin, whose Quranic commentary was published with the support of the Iranian Government, translates in it the verse Ya ‘Isa inni mutawaffi-ka as meaning that Jesus’ soul, and not his body, was raised to God’s presence (vol. i, p. 268).

2. In a poetic verse, Mirza Abul Hasan Qa-ani Sherazi says:
"Jesus has gone up to the skies, but has left his earthly body here."
 
Here's a special site I found for you and Voltaire, onearm sword. Find your group and enjoy!

"Anti-Muslim hate groups are a relatively new phenomenon in the United States, most of them appearing in the aftermath of the World Trade Center terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Earlier anti-Muslim groups tended to be religious in orientation and disputed Islam’s status as a respectable religion.

All anti-Muslim hate groups exhibit extreme hostility toward Muslims. The organizations portray those who worship Islam as fundamentally alien and attribute to its followers an inherent set of negative traits. Muslims are depicted as irrational, intolerant and violent, and their faith is frequently depicted as sanctioning pedophilia, marital rape and child marriage.

These groups also typically hold conspiratorial views regarding the inherent danger to America posed by its Muslim-American community. Muslims are depicted as a fifth column intent on undermining and eventually replacing American democracy and Western civilization with Islamic despotism. Anti-Muslim hate groups allege that Muslims are trying to subvert the rule of law by imposing on Americans their own Islamic legal system, Shariah law.

Anti-Muslim hate groups also broadly defame Islam, which they tend to treat as a monolithic and evil religion. These groups generally hold that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion."

Active Anti-Muslim Groups
 
OnearmSword said:
The perversion known as Allah is not Jesus's dad .

ALL MUSLIM'S REJECT JESUS BEING THE SON OF GOD. ALL MUSLIMS REJECT CHRIST'S DIVINITY. ARE YOU REALLY THIS IGNORANT OF THE RELIGION KNOWN AS ISLAM??

I SUGGEST YOU GET YOURSELF EDUCATED ABOUT ISLAM BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK ANY MORE STUPID THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE.
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Yes...I know they don't view Christ as divine. They view him as a true prophet of God....However....since I am a Christian, that's my belief.

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass before you do the ALL CAPS rage thing. Allah is God, God is Allah. Jews don't believe that Christ is divine either, you know?
 
Steelplate said:
Yes...I know they don't view Christ as divine. They view him as a true prophet of God....However....since I am a Christian, that's my belief.

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass before you do the ALL CAPS rage thing. Allah is God, God is Allah. Jews don't believe that Christ is divine either, you know?
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it becomes a bit problematic, even if they acknowledge YHWH as deity, when they assert he's pointing in the opposite direction.......
 
Steelplate said:
Yes...I know they don't view Christ as divine. They view him as a true prophet of God....However....since I am a Christian, that's my belief.

I suggest you pull your head out of your ass before you do the ALL CAPS rage thing. Allah is God, God is Allah. Jews don't believe that Christ is divine either, you know?
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Christians would not defend those that deny the divinity of Christ nor would a Christian defend those(Muslims) that so desperately seek to destroy the Jews and Christianity.
Allah is not God you dipstick. God is not a deity that sanctions their evil and murder. Their Koran gives permission to murder. Get that through your stupid head .
They deny Jesus and they murder in accordance with instructions in the holy book.
Stop being a fool and trying to vindicate evil and evil doers.
Neither you nor Christiefan are true Christians if you promote evil over your own religion.
You pull your pinhead out of your ass.
I gave solid proof to Christiefan about Islam and her answer to it was a lame accusation against me rather than accept it or try to refute it.
You both are quite ignorant about Islam yet you both sought to defend it.. Now that takes real arrogance and stupidity.
 
OnearmSword said:
Christians would not defend those that deny the divinity of Christ nor would a Christian defend those(Muslims) that so desperately seek to destroy the Jews and Christianity.
Allah is not God you dipstick. God is not a deity that sanctions their evil and murder. Their Koran gives permission to murder. Get that through your stupid head .
They deny Jesus and they murder in accordance with instructions in the holy book.
Stop being a fool and trying to vindicate evil and evil doers.
Neither you nor Christiefan are true Christians if you promote evil over your own religion.
You pull your pinhead out of your ass.
I gave solid proof to Christiefan about Islam and her answer to it was a lame accusation against me rather than accept it or try to refute it.
You both are quite ignorant about Islam yet you both sought to defend it.. Now that takes real arrogance and stupidity.
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God is omniscient. And God doesn't preach hate. :nlike you, blasphemer.

Now what about the Jews?
 
Steelplate said:
I think I believe in more of it than anyone who identifies with the Conservative movement

Edit: BTW...two anti-muslim websites is your basis on this? That would be like going to Beck's website to "prove" that I'm some kind of Commie.
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Why do you upon reading bible verses ignore those verses and go off on a diversion? I posted a link with many bible verses proving my point both you and christiefan ignore those and just repeated lame false accusations against me.
Somebody is being very deceitful here and sure is not me.
Is that what a website posting truth about Islam is? An anti-Islam website?
So you contend what? That the truth is irrelevant or just not convenient. So ignoring it becomes a viable and better option.
Sure doing that means in your mind that you can never lose a debate but such deceit also means you can never hope to ever win one.
 
Steelplate said:
I think I believe in more of it than anyone who identifies with the Conservative movement

Edit: BTW...two anti-muslim websites is your basis on this? That would be like going to Beck's website to "prove" that I'm some kind of Commie.
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LOL... Well., I looked for a Muslim site presenting the argument that Allah isn't God, but didn't find one. Sorry!

Edit: BTW... I don't need Beck's site to prove you're a commie, your posts do that on their own!
 
OnearmSword said:
Why do you upon reading bible verses ignore those verses and go off on a diversion? I posted a link with many bible verses proving my point both you and christiefan ignore those and just repeated lame false accusations against me.
Somebody is being very deceitful here and sure is not me.
Is that what a website posting truth about Islam is? An anti-Islam website?
So you contend what? That the truth is irrelevant or just not convenient. So ignoring it becomes a viable and better option.
Sure doing that means in your mind that you can never lose a debate but such deceit also means you can never hope to ever win one.
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Because those bible verses have "commentary" explaining them. Those "explanations" are what I take issue with.
 
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