The Greatest Story Ever Sold, The God Who Wasn't There.

Superfreak said:
And if you go back further, ancient babylonians celebrated Yule day on the 25th... blah blah blah...

Similarities in beliefs/religions does not prove that God does not exist.

As I stated, I am agnostic. Unlike yourself I am intelligent enough to realize that you cannot disprove the existence of God and thus should not mock those that choose to believe in the existence of God. For that is as ignorant as a believer of 'religion x' telling you they know you are going to 'hell' for not believing as they do.

and NO, you cannot prove it. Though I would love to see what you THINK is your proof. similarities in beliefs can be explained without disproving Gods existence.

Did it ever occur to you that IF God did/does exist that he/she may have simply conveyed a similar story to mankind throughout our brief time on this planet?

Bottom line... you do not KNOW, neither do I, nor does anyone for that matter.... because again... that is why they call if FAITH (a belief that is not based on PROOF)
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Here is your orginal response to the sameness of religions ..

Me -- Christianity, as is all religion, a collections of religious myths and superstitions.

You --
Really? So you can prove that of course
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I said yes I can prove it and I did.

Now your response changes ..

Did it ever occur to you that IF God did/does exist that he/she may have simply conveyed a similar story to mankind throughout our brief time on this planet?
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Strange that didn't occur to you when I told you they were the same.

No point in getting angry brother .. I told you there were easier people to have this conversation with.

Wanna talk about how Constantine fits in all this?

Wanna talk about why we celebrate a white blue-eyed Jesus, an obvioulsy middle-eastern man, who does not fit the description of Jesus in the BIBLE, or why Michaelangelo painted his cousin-lover as Jesus?

All relevant to the conversation of why religion and it's purposes.
 
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Onceler said:
Oh, I definitely agree that there isn't anything out there to validate the existence of God. There really isn't anything in all of the NDE's that have been documented that would lead to a conclusion of "God."

It's just interesting, and to me, indicates (not proves, but indicates) that there is something going on we don't know about.

I'm not a big fan of the word "God" because it has so many connotations at this point....
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No disagreement there.

I see Nature as God.

When I die, I live forever. I return to Nature.
 
Damocles said:
Again, sight would end Faith.

IF God were to show up and demand TV time then we no longer need Faith and are off the line of probability into that different dimension I spoke of.

Until such an instance happens we remain firmly on the line of probability, and it doesn't matter how far from center you travel on that line it is still a level of probability. In order to get to "KNOW" from the information we have you must use FAITH.

As for Jeebus, that's your thing. Like Homer, I don't believe in Jeebus.
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That same line of probability you speak of exists in the exact same form for Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

There is more probability that aliens exist .. in fact, there is a high probability that we will see aliens long before we see the Gods of the bible or Koran.

What will the story be then?

OH yeah, God created them too.
 
blackascoal said:
Here is your orginal response to the sameness of religions ..

Me -- Christianity, as is all religion, a collections of religious myths and superstitions.

You --

I said yes I can prove it and I did.

Now your response changes ..



Strange that didn't occur to you when I told you they were the same.

No point in getting angry brother .. I told you there were easier people to have this conversation with.

Wanna talk about how Constantine fits in all this?

Wanna talk about why we celebrate a white blue-eyed Jesus, an obvioulsy middle-eastern man, who does not fit the description of Jesus in the BIBLE, or why Michaelangelo painted his cousin-lover as Jesus?

All relevant to the conversation of why religion and it's purposes.
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What a strange interpretation of the conversation... I asked you to prove that it was a fallacy. You most certainly did not do that. You simply showed that there were multiple times in history that the same 'story' occured in various religions.

That does not make the story a fallacy.

I am not angry at all brother.... I am laughing at your 'knowledge'. Again, showing similarities in different religions over time neither proves nor disproves God's existence which is the fundamental basis for religions.

Did the various religions twist the stories to fit the message they want to convey... sure. There are numerous discrepancies that can be pointed out.

But NONE of those either individually or collectively can prove or disprove Gods existence.... which again is the foundation of religious beliefs.

As I said, your 'argument' is no more valid 'evidence' than someone from the hardcore RR that states you are going to 'hell' because they 'know' 'God' will punish you for not believing.
 
Superfreak said:
What a strange interpretation of the conversation... I asked you to prove that it was a fallacy. You most certainly did not do that. You simply showed that there were multiple times in history that the same 'story' occured in various religions.

That does not make the story a fallacy.

I am not angry at all brother.... I am laughing at your 'knowledge'. Again, showing similarities in different religions over time neither proves nor disproves God's existence which is the fundamental basis for religions.

Did the various religions twist the stories to fit the message they want to convey... sure. There are numerous discrepancies that can be pointed out.

But NONE of those either individually or collectively can prove or disprove Gods existence.... which again is the foundation of religious beliefs.

As I said, your 'argument' is no more valid 'evidence' than someone from the hardcore RR that states you are going to 'hell' because they 'know' 'God' will punish you for not believing.
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Dude, you're back to the Santa theory.

Ok, I give up .. Santa might really exist because no one can prove he doesn't.

You and Santa win.
 
Onceler said:
This may be kind of a non-sequitor, but there has been loads of research on near-death experiences, and some of the findings are certainly intriguing.

It's not proof of a "god" per say, but it certainly does lay a foundation that there is something going on that we don't know much about...
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I know some people who are doing neurophysiological research on such phenomena as calcium sparks, etc., which are processes that occur when cells are dying or beginning to die. They suggest that this may be the source of the "light" that some patients have reported as seeing. As our investigations become more sophisticated, both as a consequence of prior research findings and technological developments, many of these questions can begin to be answered.
 
wilton said:
I don't care if you don't believe in God... your'e the one that's going to burn in hell. :)
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Of course one would have to actually believe in the existence of Hell to burn in it .. given that both God and Hell only exist in the mind of the believer.

Therefore .. I'm safe.
 
blackascoal said:
Dude, you're back to the Santa theory.

Ok, I give up .. Santa might really exist because no one can prove he doesn't.

You and Santa win.
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lmao... whatever... just like the hard core religious people... you are going to cling to your BELIEFS because you refuse to accept the FACT that you could be wrong. Its ok. Many other small minded people share the same characteristics.
 
blackascoal said:
That same line of probability you speak of exists in the exact same form for Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

There is more probability that aliens exist .. in fact, there is a high probability that we will see aliens long before we see the Gods of the bible or Koran.

What will the story be then?

OH yeah, God created them too.
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It does, however the level of probability changes quite a bit.

Are you sure that no such being could exist on some plane somewhere?

No scientist would ever tell you that they could not exist somewhere, but the probability of their existence? Nearly zero.

Which was my point. You can believe that the probability of God had an equal probability to that of the Easter Bunny, but it still doesn't change that it is a probability level, not a "certainty" by any means.
 
Superfreak said:
lmao... whatever... just like the hard core religious people... you are going to cling to your BELIEFS because you refuse to accept the FACT that you could be wrong. Its ok. Many other small minded people share the same characteristics.
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Go ahead .. you and Santa rub it in.

How utterly "small-minded" of me to have ever believed Santa Claus might not be real.

:)

I also want to apologize to Big Foot.

:lmao:
 
Thorn said:
I know some people who are doing neurophysiological research on such phenomena as calcium sparks, etc., which are processes that occur when cells are dying or beginning to die. They suggest that this may be the source of the "light" that some patients have reported as seeing. As our investigations become more sophisticated, both as a consequence of prior research findings and technological developments, many of these questions can begin to be answered.
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Thorn have you ever heard of that study where the researcher documented a loss of something like 22 grams for every person who died in the study regardless of body weight? It was supposed to suggest that the mass lost was the human soul. I read a criticism of it one time but I have always wondered if anyone did any followups.
 
Damocles said:
It does, however the level of probability changes quite a bit.

Are you sure that no such being could exist on some plane somewhere?

No scientist would ever tell you that they could not exist somewhere, but the probability of their existence? Nearly zero.

Which was my point. You can believe that the probability of God had an equal probability to that of the Easter Bunny, but it still doesn't change that it is a probability level, not a "certainty" by any means.
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Au contraire' mon amie

I believe that life exists on many other planets .. which is why I said we'll see aliens before we see the Gods of religion.
 
Epicurus said:
Thorn have you ever heard of that study where the researcher documented a loss of something like 22 grams for every person who died in the study regardless of body weight? It was supposed to suggest that the mass lost was the human soul. I read a criticism of it one time but I have always wondered if anyone did any followups.
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I recall that vaguely, and that there were at best some methodological problems, and thus problems with the interpretations. This is why it is so unwise for a researcher to have any sort of vested interest in the topic of research.
 
blackascoal said:
Go ahead .. you and Santa rub it in.

How utterly "small-minded" of me to have ever believed Santa Claus might not be real.

:)

I also want to apologize to Big Foot.

:lmao:
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Keep laughing... most simpletons do indeed try to laugh off anything that might point out the fallacy in their beliefs. It is understandable that you still fail to comprehend the error in your position.

you believe there are beings on other planets, yet cannot fathom how someone could believe that a being more powerful than us could possibly exist. One that could create our world etc...

Probably like an ant that has never seen a human. Probably mocks other ants for believing that a more powerful being could come and create their entire world, control their very existence, because they had no proof of the so called 'human'. Then the ant bumps into the glass wall and wonders how it got there.

You proclaim how creative and powerful the human mind is and then fail to use your own to see through your own bullshit.

You continue to use your Santa analogy as if that means anything to me. It does not. I do not believe in Santa, just as I do not believe in God (nor do I disbelieve). But my BELIEFS do not magically become FACT simply because that is the way I really really want things to be.
 
blackascoal said:
Au contraire' mon amie

I believe that life exists on many other planets .. which is why I said we'll see aliens before we see the Gods of religion.
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Read again what I wrote.

Whether you believe in aliens or not changes nothing about the difference between "high probability" and "certainty" that I am trying to explain to you.

(BTW - I agree about aliens. But it just isn't part of the subject at hand and had nothing to do with what I stated.)
 
wilton said:
If it does exist... your'e FUCKED!!!!
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If it does, we're all fucked given that only 144,000 people have tickets to get in .. and given the billions of people who have existed, I'd say you have a better chance of hitting the New Jersey Lottery without buying a ticket than getting into heaven.

And, and, and .. "Who among us is without sin?" :eek:

Hell, I'm sinning while I'm typing this post.

Everyting irie mon'
 
Damocles said:
Read again what I wrote.

Whether you believe in aliens or not changes nothing about the difference between "high probability" and "certainty" that I am trying to explain to you.

(BTW - I agree about aliens. But it just isn't part of the subject at hand and had nothing to do with what I stated.)
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Whether you believe in God, Big Foot, or the fat guy who moves about on flying reindeer, they all have the same probability of existence.

There is no certainty about either of them.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it all boils down to the same thing. Their only claim to existence is that nobody can claim they don't.

There is nothing more outrageous in a belief that a fat guy can move around in a flying reindeer sled than there is that a human-like God watches over us.

The only difference is the fat guy isn't presented as fact.
 
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