Suicide and Trumpism

noise said:
decline of the white working class. if it's anything.
which is why bringing good paying jobs back like manufacturing under Trump is so hopeful
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You can't get hired for a good paying job if you lack the skills and training to do that job.

Those "good paying, low education" jobs are another con. Just like "the wall".
 
CFM said:
When what you hope for is a crock of shit, that's not progress. Calling it progressive only helps you deal with it better when it fails.
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I'm not talking about a specific policy or social change here, but rather about progress in general. Liberals tend to believe the arc of history bends towards justice (to borrow a phrase from MLK). We tend to recognize that for the last fifteen hundred years or so, the overall trend has pretty consistently been for things to get better. So, we tend to think in terms of most changes being for the good, and that's why we're less focused on conserving or restoring the ways of the past (the essence of conservatism). We're less likely to panic about the social changes of racial integration, or women's lib, or gay marriage, or transgender rights, and so on. It's not hard to imagine why that optimistic outlook might make us less prone to suicide than a conservative who imagines the best time to be at some unspecified point in the past, such that our only hope is to roll things back to "make America great again," rather than moving forward to something even better.
 
Oneuli said:
I'm not talking about a specific policy or social change here, but rather about progress in general. Liberals tend to believe the arc of history bends towards justice (to borrow a phrase from MLK). We tend to recognize that for the last fifteen hundred years or so, the overall trend has pretty consistently been for things to get better. So, we tend to think in terms of most changes being for the good, and that's why we're less focused on conserving or restoring the ways of the past (the essence of conservatism). We're less likely to panic about the social changes of racial integration, or women's lib, or gay marriage, or transgender rights, and so on. It's not hard to imagine why that optimistic outlook might make us less prone to suicide than a conservative who imagines the best time to be at some unspecified point in the past, such that our only hope is to roll things back to "make America great again," rather than moving forward to something even better.
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That hasn't happened either.

Perhaps you forgot what happened to MLK?

What about Making America Great AGAIN is bad? Isn't great a good thing?
 
noise said:
decline of the white working class. if it's anything.
which is why bringing good paying jobs back like manufacturing under Trump is so hopeful
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If that's what's happening, then shouldn't we be looking at how to transform more of the economy to the kinds of jobs that have resulted in much lower suicide rates in places like the Northeast, rather than trying to preserve the fading economic paradigm that has failed those high-suicide states?
 
CFM said:
Perhaps you forgot what happened to MLK?
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I didn't. What happened is that he change this nation for the better and was memorialized as one of the greatest Americans, and an almost universally loved figure around the world.

What about Making America Great AGAIN is bad?
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The problem is imagining there was some period of greatness in the past that can be recaptured by rolling back progress. When, exactly, was this greatness you want to return to? Can you provide a specific date?
 
CFM said:
....n-lover.
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I can always tell when your defeat is so total that even YOU are able to recognize it, by your collapse into racist insults. We intelligent members of the forum read this the same way as if you'd just written "you kicked my ass so badly that all that's left for me is to spew shit into the forum and hope nobody notices my humiliation."
 
LV426 said:
You can't get hired for a good paying job if you lack the skills and training to do that job.

Those "good paying, low education" jobs are another con. Just like "the wall".
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there are soo many good paying jobs available many employers will hire on a training basis to fill them.
education isn't as important as skills. we do need less emphasis on liberal arts and more vocational training
 
Cypress said:
I think it is pretty obvious from this message board, and many others, that white nationalists, xenophobes, and degenerate bigots spend inordinate amounts of their lives - countless hours - indulging in resentment, cynicism, nursing petty grudges. They spend a lot of time stressing out about "invasions from the south", "feminazis", "immigrants from sh*thole countries", welfare-hogging "darkies", the imagined horrors of Sharia Law, and dirty "towel heads".

Living with that kind of negativity, hate, and cynicism had to poison their souls - and result in mentally and emotionally damaged subhumans.
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Is it any wonder that Russia has such a high suicide rate when you have people like Crypiss? They are the most miserable people on the planet
 
Oneuli said:
I didn't. What happened is that he change this nation for the better and was memorialized as one of the greatest Americans, and an almost universally loved figure around the world.



The problem is imagining there was some period of greatness in the past that can be recaptured by rolling back progress. When, exactly, was this greatness you want to return to? Can you provide a specific date?
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If people love him it's likely because they get a day off from work. As for me, I celebrate Robert E. Lee Day and make sure I work.

Funny, and sad at the same time, story about MLK Day where I live. County employees received several paid holidays. All but one of those days was on a set schedule (i.e. - Memorial Day, Labor Day, 4th of July, etc.) Each county employee also got one floating holiday they could used whenever they wanted on a non-scheduled holiday, MLK Day being one of them. Although a large percentage of the county's employees are black, very few chose the third Monday in January which, while a State holiday, was not one recognized by the County as a designated. Many whined and whined about it being added to the list yet when asked why they didn't use it as the floater, they indicated that the weather was worse during January and they didn't want to waste a day when the weather could be that bad. Sadly, the employees still demanded the floater to remain. They got the MLK day but lost the floater.
 
Oneuli said:
I can always tell when your defeat is so total that even YOU are able to recognize it, by your collapse into racist insults. We intelligent members of the forum read this the same way as if you'd just written "you kicked my ass so badly that all that's left for me is to spew shit into the forum and hope nobody notices my humiliation."
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It's not racist or an insult. Facts can't be either one.

Anyone that chooses to be what the facts show you are can't be too intelligent. You thought Obama was qualified because of his skin color.
 
Oneuli said:
It's pretty much impossible to live in a bubble in NYC. Remember, NYC is ridiculously diverse -- and not only in racial terms. People come to NYC from all over the country and all over the world. We have oodles of people from almost any background you can imagine. That includes a whole lot of refugees from Trump Country.

Think about it: in small-town America, just how many people do you meet who grew up in the heart of a big, cosmopolitan city like New York? Very few, if any. But in the heart of a big, cosmopolitan city like New York, you regularly meet people who grew up in small-town America. I know lots of people from Trump Country backgrounds, and a common comment by such people is how they never even met various sorts of people until they moved to New York (or at least until they headed off to college). For example, they may never have known a gay person growing up, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or an immigrant, or someone of Asian ancestry, etc. The bubbles in this country definitely aren't the big cities. It's the small towns, where you can live your life while meeting hardly anyone from outside that little bubble.
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The Bay Area is very diverse and it is extremely easy to live in a bubble here. NYC is not immune
 
Oneuli said:
I suppose there may be something about conservatism that correlates with depression. After all, liberals tend to be progressive -- meaning they tend to think progress makes things better. That mindset is inherently hopeful. Even if life sucks at the moment, you assume "it gets better," and that gives you a reason to hold on for a brighter day. But conservatives tend to be reactionaries. They imagine the existence of some golden age in the past, and think the world has been heading to hell in a hand-basket since then. So, they don't have the hope that comes with an "it gets better" assumption. If life sucks today, it's likely to suck even more in a year or two, as more of the traditions that made life sweet are eroded away. From that perspective, it's not hard to see why societies with that attitude might have more of a suicide problem.
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Do you consider liberal neighborhoods that fight against new housing and new neighbors as those wanting change?
 
Oneuli said:
Take a look at these two blocks of statistics:

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/population-health/us-states-ranked-by-suicide-rate.html
https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump/

What's remarkable is how strongly correlated suicide rates are with Trump approval rates, at the state level. Specifically, there's a 58.4% positive correlation. Basically, the more suicidally depressed people are in a state, the more likely people in the state are to approve of Trump.

This is particularly interesting because it flies in the face of the normal trend for higher-latitude populations to have higher suicide rates (likely owing to circadian rhythm problems in places where there are huge imbalances between night and day in the Summer and Winter months, resulting in sleep irregularities and depression). Other things being equal, you'd expect lower suicide rates in the Deep South than in New England, just as you find lower suicide rates in southern European countries (Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal) than northern ones (Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland).

So, what's the reason for this correlation? Is there something about conservative politics that makes people suicidal (e.g., skimping on public assistance for mental health care)? Or something about being suicidal that makes people conservative (e.g., the attraction of hateful rhetoric to those who are emotionally frayed)? Or something separate that drives both things (e.g., a sense of being left behind, economically)? Why is it that there's such an enormous gap in suicide rates between places like NJ, NY, and MA (around 8/100k), and places like Montana, Alaska, and Wyoming (around 25/100k)?
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The link in one of your links shows the report is from 2016.
https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/suicide-rate/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B"colId":"Suicide%20Rate%20per%20100,000%20Individuals","sort":"desc"%7D
No doubt the data was collected before 2016. So the OP about a correlation between Trump approval and suicide is a complete fail. May as well end this thread.
 
CFM said:
If people love him it's likely because they get a day off from work.
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Most of us love him because he's a martyred hero who fought for the rights of Americans who had been left out of the American Dream, and through his efforts made life immeasurably better.

As for me, I celebrate Robert E. Lee Day
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As a patriot, the idea of celebrating a traitor like Lee repulses me. The man led soldiers against our country and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of American troops.
 
anonymoose said:
The link in one of your links shows the report is from 2016.
https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/suicide-rate/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B"colId":"Suicide%20Rate%20per%20100,000%20Individuals","sort":"desc"%7D
No doubt the data was collected before 2016. So the OP about a correlation between Trump approval and suicide is a complete fail. May as well end this thread.
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No sense being in denial there are hotlines you can call for help
 
cawacko said:
The Bay Area is very diverse and it is extremely easy to live in a bubble here. NYC is not immune
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If you've managed to live in a bubble in the Bay Area, you've got a real talent for self-isolation. For my part, I'd have to become a home-bound hermit to live in a bubble here in New York.
 
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