Silicon Valley

[cawacko]

no they are acting for their economic interests. US companies could care less about the prosperity of the US. They care about their own personal prosperity. And yes they do do this.

Apple: has resource facilities in china instead of here

Trump: Trump water, Trump magazine, Trump wine, all these things are not designed to be sold to the public. They are designed to be sold to his businesses ( a hotel consumes gallons of mineral water I imagine and your magazine just has to have some content) so that he gets the profit not anyone else. (i.e. production inputs like natural resources being inside the country)

other companies do it too. Companies will always look to thier own profits first. Theoretically it is up to the govt to make it look out for the country first.

That doesn't answer the question of your economic theory you say should make companies want to manufacture here again. Why aren't they doing it if you say it's in their best interests to do so?

 

[Bill]

There's limited old school manufacturing here because of environmental laws. The Bay Area and LA are not going Trump. The Central Valley is about farming, not manufacturing. San Diego is bio tech driven.

Trump will have the same appeal here all other republicans do and that's none.

Don't forget the beer in Sand Diego...

& how does the trumpf fit in there?? He don't..........

Usually the interior would swing gop but all those farm workers & friends going to be deported?? Marched down to TJ?? The growers will be real happy to be rid of them I bet

Calif exports billions in fruit, veggies + tech etc...... On the other hand if those farmers have no workers & can't export that's more water for los vegass casinos & strip clubs

 

[Darth Omar]

There's limited old school manufacturing here because of environmental laws. The Bay Area and LA are not going Trump. The Central Valley is about farming, not manufacturing. San Diego is bio tech driven.

Trump will have the same appeal here all other republicans do and that's none.

But the workers will go wherever the manufacturing jobs pop up. Even if it means leaving CA.

Because of liberal policies, CA would be Detroit were it not for the fact it's California lol. I don't understand why they keep voting democratic.

 

[tsuke]

That doesn't answer the question of your economic theory you say should make companies want to manufacture here again. Why aren't they doing it if you say it's in their best interests to do so?

what I am saying is that it is beneficial for the NATION to make them manufacture here again even if fully automated therefore we must make it in their best interest thru tarrifs and other means.

Your argument is that it does not matter if they come back it is all automated anyway logic and economic principles (like backward linkages) be damned.

This will be my last post in the subject. Im cant explain it any clearer.

 

[tsuke]

But the workers will go wherever the manufacturing jobs pop up. Even if it means leaving CA.

Because of liberal policies, CA would be Detroit were it not for the fact it's California lol. I don't understand why they keep voting democratic.

My dream is that protectionist policies would cause companies to outsource from California to Iowa or Wisconsin or Alabama instead of to third world countries. Creating a more equitable distribution of wealth in the country.

Because wealth distribution is so bad the country tends to have different values because of it leading to less national unity. An Argument could already be made that the US consists of 3-4 countries right now which is bad.

 

[cawacko]

what I am saying is that it is beneficial for the NATION to make them manufacture here again even if fully automated therefore we must make it in their best interest thru tarrifs and other means.

Your argument is that it does not matter if they come back it is all automated anyway logic and economic principles (like backward linkages) be damned.

This will be my last post in the subject. Im cant explain it any clearer.

Companies are going to do what's in their best interest. The gov't can't force them otherwise nor should they. Make the U.S. more attractive and we'll see some of the jobs come back. It will be market driven however.

 

[cawacko]

My dream is that protectionist policies would cause companies to outsource from California to Iowa or Wisconsin or Alabama instead of to third world countries. Creating a more equitable distribution of wealth in the country.

Because wealth distribution is so bad the country tends to have different values because of it leading to less national unity. An Argument could already be made that the US consists of 3-4 countries right now which is bad.

We did this a century ago.

 

[Bill]

Companies are going to do what's in their best interest. The gov't can't force them otherwise nor should they. Make the U.S. more attractive and we'll see some of the jobs come back. It will be market driven however.

Sure they can & have done so since the inception....... This seems to be what trumpf has in mind, a lil more of that, & a few less incentives to leave.....

Now that the gop has done a 180 that doesn't sound so "impossible" any more.......

 

[cawacko]

That's right!

Keep in mind. As important as silicon valley is the whole world doesn't revolve around it.

Besides, you're not thinking outside the box. Who's says opposing our current trade agreements make you "anti-trade" or that it is inevitable that manufacturing will decline in the U.S. Both of those point of views are pessimistic at worst and fatalistic at best.

I'm very much pro-trade but I'd rather see the producers earning more than the traders. I'm pro trade. I think we should do a lot more off it. Our trade imbalance is ridiculous and needs to be corrected. That doesn't make me "anti-trade". That makes me focused on solving a very serious problem affecting our economy. We have agreements that are lopsided and trade partners who consistently cheat, manipulate their currencies and have gained advantages against us in trade that we are afraid to correct out of fear of creating a trade war.

Nor is manufacturing a bygone notion of a romanticized period. That's just a load of shit from people who've never made anything. MADE IN THE U.S.A. is still one of the benchmarks around the world for top quality products. There are practical solutions to revitalize American manufacturing and create both industrial and service sector jobs to support manufacturing but they will not be implemented if we don't have the political will.

So spare me the inevitable fatalism about manufacturing. The problem with investment bankers race to the bottom is eventually they do hit bottom. It is not a healthy economy when the vast majority of those who benefit from it are a handful of traders, bankers and venture capitalist. It's not a sustainable business cycles. SOMEONE HAS TO PRODUCE!

Why is our trade deficit a problem? Trump tries to sell it like it is. What do you feel will change with a more even balance?

You sound just like Trump and Bernie Sanders in your trade talk.

I'll repost the 538 article again. I've never said we'll have no manufacturing here but it is like 10% of jobs today. Even if Trump does what he claims, which he won't, it will still only rise to around 11%. There's not going to be a great manufacturing job renaissance in this country.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back/

 

[Bill]

Why is our trade deficit a problem? Trump tries to sell it like it is. What do you feel will change with a more even balance?

You sound just like Trump and Bernie Sanders in your trade talk.

I'll repost the 538 article again. I've never said we'll have no manufacturing here but it is like 10% of jobs today. Even if Trump does what he claims, which he won't, it will still only rise to around 11%. There's not going to be a great manufacturing job renaissance in this country.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back/

So the trumpf is a liar??

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I would totally be playing Pokeman Go if I were in my 20's. That would be so up my alley. I am kinda sad I'm too old, I would look ridiculous. It makes me laugh thinking about it!

Yeah Trump isn't getting the techies. I have clients who sound very similar, right here in the big apple, which has a very nice little tech boom going thank you very much.

They're not trump people.

I was always to hyper for electronic games. Didn't have the patience to learn them. Wanted to be outside.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Austin thinks they are catching up us. Y'all are but a blip in the Valley's radar! Haha. I kid.

The fact that we basically have a no development policy in the Bay Area is hurting us in terms of the cost to live and do business here (hence the appeal of places like Austin.) I can't imagine NYC being all that less.

Cost of living in Austin isn't that much higher than Cowtown either. I like Austin a lot. I'd have no problem living there. I mean it's not what you would expect for the center of Texas given the Texan stereotype. There's not a whole lot of difference between Cowtown and Austin except our winters suck and their summers suck.

 

[cawacko]

Cost of living in Austin isn't that much higher than Cowtown either. I like Austin a lot. I'd have no problem living there. I mean it's not what you would expect for the center of Texas given the Texan stereotype. There's not a whole lot of difference between Cowtown and Austin except our winters suck and their summers suck.

No cowtown has 6th St or that many hot women

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's home of great American engineuty and entrepreneurialism. Do nationalists find that a bad thing? Should our VC's stop funding tech firms? Should we cut off all immigration so brilliant people from around the world don't come here to start companies and disrupt industries?

It's a great place. I wish I was at that level.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

This type of environment isn't much different than a typical university town. Get out in the real world, where people work outside and with their hands, and it's all different.

Yup. Agreed. At least that has been my experience.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

That will never go away of course but as more and more of these Millenials grow up in a tech driven world a lot fewer will know the prior American life of working in factories etc.

Oh you're just simply dead wrong. The people who are actually working directly working in manufacturing are declining but the modern supply chain and logistics partnerships that are required to keep those plants humming employ even more people. I mean you need to go see the Honda, Marysville or Ford Engine #1 in Cleveland and see how integral third party vendor relationships are for these centralized manufacturing and assembly centers. Minimized work force only works if supply chain and logistics can bring you only just what you need only when you need it. That's a huge downstream economic influence even if less people are directly involved in working at that plant.

My point being is that a shit load of people may not be working in manufacturing for their livelihood but are interdependent with those who do. I'm a perfect example of that. I'm not involved in manufacturing but I provide technical service that the manufacturer requires to operate.

So I think you underestimate the economic and strategic importance of being self sufficient. We need manufacturing.

 

[Damocles]

I would totally be playing Pokeman Go if I were in my 20's. That would be so up my alley. I am kinda sad I'm too old, I would look ridiculous. It makes me laugh thinking about it!

Yeah Trump isn't getting the techies. I have clients who sound very similar, right here in the big apple, which has a very nice little tech boom going thank you very much.

They're not trump people.

You can go to the park here and see even very old people playing that stupid game. I downloaded it, and tried it, because the girls can't stop talking about it. It sucks. The same thing, over and over... kind of like arguing abortion.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I'm far from a Trump supporter but to be fair, despite his rhetoric, he did say this in his acceptance speech:



And this:



And then he followed up that with some statements which I would have left out but I do understand he was throwing a lot of red meat into the pen.

But I can't say I disagree with the quoted above. I would love for there to be a better vetting process for folks from compromised nations. I don't think it would keep the people you have been working with out nor is it really a call to stop all immigration, IMO.

Also we have had the manufacturing jobs discussion before. I am not ready to give up on manufacturing jobs being in communities throughout the US. I don't know what Trump thinks he can do but I hope and pray that something can be done. People who are not good in STEM areas or good with tech or coding need good paying jobs too. We don't make anything in this country anymore. I remember that as soon as Bill signed the republican approved NAFTA the only two factories in our county seat laid off their people, closed their doors and moved to Mexico. The people here suffered. For this reason I sort of agree with tsuke in that I would prefer that American companies hire Americans first. I absolutely disagree with any NAFTA type of deal. I see cities like Bowling Green, KY doing very well and growing largely because GM continues to keep the Corvette plant there. Why can't other cities and communities enjoy the same opportunity for prosperity?

I just don't think Trump is as extreme on this as many want us to believe. And I think it'll take more than just softening on this to reach most 20 somethings.

The flaw in that logic LR, and I'm speaking as someone who has gone through that vetting process with my wife's immigration, is that it was a real long thorough colonoscopy. That's the false argument, that our process is broken. Hell post 9-11 it's the best it's ever been in our nations history. The people in the ME who are in refugee status will probably go through a 2 year anal probing before they decide yes or no. They also represent a small percentage of overall immigrants and, as I keeping reminding everyone, it's not like they are Irish.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I am not familiar with backward linkages. If what you write is so great and powerful why have U.S. businesses done what they've done? Have their moves toward automation and offshoring not taken this into account? Are they acting against their best economic interests? Is there millions of dollars waiting for you to teach corporations this technique?

They're doing it now! How do you think I make my living?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Silicon Valley is an oasis in a desert. CA generally, is beset by insane immigrantion policy, sanctuary cities and migrant workers who would benefit from a return of *at least some* manufacturing jobs.

I can see how Trump might appeal to them.

Their wine rocks though.