Should the South claim Autonomy from the North?

Mott the Hoople said:
In the rural areas. Sure small town and rural southern areas are strongly conservative but you are talking about areas where more of the population lives in small towns then in large urban regions. I've lived in the south. Charlotte is faaaaar more liberal then the rest of North Carolina. Houston is faaaaar more liberal then the rest of Texas and Coldwater, Ohio is faaaaaar more conservative then metropolitan Ohio.

Disabuse yourself of this fantasy. Look at the electoral maps. The rural midwest, Iowa, Nebraska, North/South Dakota, Kansas, etc are as coservative or more conservative then many southern States. Look at the electoral maps. Where do most Democratic voters come from? They come from the NE megalopolis, The southern Califonia and Bay area megalopolis and from the Great Lakes megalopolises and from the Piedmont megoloplis region. Where do most Republican votes come from? They come? They come from the rural/small town areas of this nation. Hell in 2004 Cincinnati was the only metropolitican region in the nation where the majority of people voted for Bush.
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This is a good argument for conservatism, which is that the federal government should abide by its Constitutional limitations. That way certain states and local governments could provide the services that their majority liberal constituents wanted, and conservatives in those areas could move away if they chose to.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
In the rural areas. Sure small town and rural southern areas are strongly conservative but you are talking about areas where more of the population lives in small towns then in large urban regions. I've lived in the south. Charlotte is faaaaar more liberal then the rest of North Carolina. Houston is faaaaar more liberal then the rest of Texas and Coldwater, Ohio is faaaaaar more conservative then metropolitan Ohio.

Disabuse yourself of this fantasy. Look at the electoral maps. The rural midwest, Iowa, Nebraska, North/South Dakota, Kansas, etc are as coservative or more conservative then many southern States. Look at the electoral maps. Where do most Democratic voters come from? They come from the NE megalopolis, The southern Califonia and Bay area megalopolis and from the Great Lakes megalopolises and from the Piedmont megoloplis region. Where do most Republican votes come from? They come? They come from the rural/small town areas of this nation. Hell in 2004 Cincinnati was the only metropolitican region in the nation where the majority of people voted for Bush.
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Correct me if I am mistaken but are you saying the major cities even in the south are democrat/liberal strong holds?????

Listen MTH. A democracy is about(or should be about) majority rules. And if the Majority of the people are republican? They should be republican states. Simple as that. Do you agree that the states I have mentioned have a much larger population of republicans, yes or no.

Those cincinnati people were probably the middle men profiting from NAFTA(bringing cheap Canadian exports into America).
 
SmarterThanYou said:
chicago and southern dallas are much the same, politically. They are both heavily liberal, and the only reason that the gop still dominates there is that voting restrictions are still enforced.
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In Chicago ok, but in Texas? The liberals are certainly the minority by far. Regardless of Dallas.
 
DamnYankee said:
A better idea would be to force the federal government to abide by its Constitutional limitations. That way the various states could provide all the services that their residents desired. Massachusetts and California would have cradle-to-grave health care and 16 weeks vacation and the Southern States would have none of that.
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Why do you feel the state representatives have failed to keep the federal government in check? I would throw them all out of office till I found one that would.

Sounds to me like the American government is more of a dictatorship then a government. And that is what I mean. American politics is all about trying to impose your will and ideologies on others.
 
wiseones2cents said:
In Chicago ok, but in Texas? The liberals are certainly the minority by far. Regardless of Dallas.
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you are really starting to look foolish. Dallas, Austin, and Houston, 3 of the largest cities in TX, are hugely liberal and democrat. The only large city exception would be San Antonio, due in part to the existence of Dell. So your broadstroking of political bents based on state geography could use some repair.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Why do you feel the state representatives have failed to keep the federal government in check? I would throw them all out of office till I found one that would.

Sounds to me like the American government is more of a dictatorship then a government. And that is what I mean. American politics is all about trying to impose your will and ideologies on others.
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I thought you were pro democracy?
 
Are you speaking about throwing the liberals out of the south? Like for example, Texas throwing out the liberal Dallas folk?

That is doable, though if you don't have autonomy, a democratic/liberal federal government would still be able to impose their will on you.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Why do you feel the state representatives have failed to keep the federal government in check? I would throw them all out of office till I found one that would.

Sounds to me like the American government is more of a dictatorship then a government. And that is what I mean. American politics is all about trying to impose your will and ideologies on others.
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It was a long time in the making and started with Woodrow Wilson, and accelerated greatly under the FDR administration. The Supreme Court grew in numbers by FDR and who appointed a lopsided progressive bench. Decisions at that time allowed Congress and the President to ignore the Constitution. These decisions then became the precedent for others to follow, each more insidious than the next.

The Democrats want to grow government to have as much power and control as possible and the Republicans, once they have their turn at it, are too afraid to reduce the size of government, and many times act to increase it.

Neither side wants to do what needs to be done and impeach the worst offenders. In fact impeachment is rarely discussed.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Are you speaking about throwing the liberals out of the south? Like for example, Texas throwing out the liberal Dallas folk?

That is doable, though if you don't have autonomy, a democratic/liberal federal government would still be able to impose their will on you.
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this is still a foolish topic. the type of autonomy you're talking about is really the ability to flout federal law. That has already been decided by one civil war and numerous court cases. I repeat my question, if Texas were to tell the feds that we're not abiding by their firearms laws anymore because they are unconstitutional, do you see any part of the texas government coming to the rescue of a citizen who buys a machine gun?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
I thought you were pro democracy?
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I am pro democratic. Though when there is such a huge divide and not a clear majority, it becomes counter productive.

The thing is that the divide is by design. To keep the masses fighting each other while the true enemy goes undetected.

What the elites fear the most is the people uniting.........
 
DamnYankee said:
It was a long time in the making and started with Woodrow Wilson, and accelerated greatly under the FDR administration. The Supreme Court grew in numbers by FDR and who appointed a lopsided progressive bench. Decisions at that time allowed Congress and the President to ignore the Constitution. These decisions then became the precedent for others to follow, each more insidious than the next.
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Believe me when I tell you that the Federal Reserve is to blame. They established their authority in 1913 and have kept it since. They are the true masters of America......

The Democrats want to grow government to have as much power and control as possible and the Republicans, once they have their turn at it, are too afraid to reduce the size of government, and many times act to increase it.
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This is a difficult subject and not as black and white as it seems. I dont mind a large governments(to an extent). Large populations need proper representation and workers. Thus large government. What I don't like is over paid, cronyism, pass the buck government workers, who get payed to do nothing. Look at bush? He increased government to gain support for his own party.....It is a method of buying votes.



Neither side wants to do what needs to be done and impeach the worst offenders. In fact impeachment is rarely discussed.
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That is because both parties are just show boating and are playing for the same side. The rich. The good cop bad cop routine is just for public consumption.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
this is still a foolish topic. the type of autonomy you're talking about is really the ability to flout federal law. That has already been decided by one civil war and numerous court cases. I repeat my question, if Texas were to tell the feds that we're not abiding by their firearms laws anymore because they are unconstitutional, do you see any part of the texas government coming to the rescue of a citizen who buys a machine gun?
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Only certain federal laws the government has no jurisdiction imposing.

Repeat your question? This is the first time hearing it.lol

The answer is obviously. If the majority of people in Texas agreed it was unconstitutional? The government has no choice but to support the citizen or get booted out of office.

I read somewhere that Miami citizens were allowed to carry weapons in public no? If the state agrees, there is nothing the federal government can do. As long as it doesn't endanger other states.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Only certain federal laws the government has no jurisdiction imposing.

Repeat your question? This is the first time hearing it.lol

The answer is obviously. If the majority of people in Texas agreed it was unconstitutional? The government has no choice but to support the citizen or get booted out of office.
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and the citizen who is persecuted by the feds still gets to go to prison? all we do is vote the state cowards out of office? i see zero autonomy in that, in fact all it is is citizen cowardice for pinning it on elected representatives with no accountability.

wiseones2cents said:
I read somewhere that Miami citizens were allowed to carry weapons in public no? If the state agrees, there is nothing the federal government can do. As long as it doesn't endanger other states.
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then you read wrong. florida does not have open carry, only concealed. what you're referring to is the new state law that prohibits localities from making or enforcing any local laws on the possession of weapons in places like public parks and property, even going so far as to imposing fines, jail, and removal from office of any public representative that runs afoul of that law.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Believe me when I tell you that the Federal Reserve is to blame. They established their authority in 1913 and have kept it since. They are the true masters of America......
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Why should I believe you? Congress has the power to eliminate the Fed any time that they want. They just need representatives with balls. No Democrat rep has balls. Only a few GOP reps have them.
 
wiseones2cents said:
How can we all be the government? The government is HIRED by us to manage our resources and funds. Unfortunately the Corps, say whatever they are paying you, we will double it.......
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then they cease being 'us', do they not?

try opening up your eyes and your mind. how many millionaires are there in federal office today?
 
DamnYankee said:
Why should I believe you? Congress has the power to eliminate the Fed any time that they want. They just need representatives with balls. No Democrat rep has balls. Only a few GOP reps have them.
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Ya right. They don't even have the power to audit it and why would they eliminate their sugar daddy?

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." — SIR JOSIAH STAMP, (President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain):

None of them have balls because like I said, they are all eating at the pig troughs. They figure why risk losing their gravy train.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
and the citizen who is persecuted by the feds still gets to go to prison? all we do is vote the state cowards out of office? i see zero autonomy in that, in fact all it is is citizen cowardice for pinning it on elected representatives with no accountability.
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The fed has no jurisdiction regarding state laws. They cant arrest someone in a state that legally abides by state laws, even if the feds don't agree with them. Unless it something that can cause national harm. If the state representatives do not represent the will of the people? What kind of representatives are they? That is autonomy. Self rule. The people are self ruleds. If the State has to bow to every federal whim, then it is not living under autonomy.


then you read wrong. florida does not have open carry, only concealed. what you're referring to is the new state law that prohibits localities from making or enforcing any local laws on the possession of weapons in places like public parks and property, even going so far as to imposing fines, jail, and removal from office of any public representative that runs afoul of that law.
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http://www.chacha.com/question/is-it-legal-to-carry-loaded-firearm-in-a-snapped-holster-in-fl

The facts remain that the state have the right, or should have the right to dictate their own laws. As long as they are not deemed immorally and physically danger to their neighboring states.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
then they cease being 'us', do they not?

try opening up your eyes and your mind. how many millionaires are there in federal office today?
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They cease being us when we dont keep them in check.

I have many eyes and a expansive mind. How many millionaires? Alot.

That is why capitalism is a failure. You have capitalists going to office to do what? Make money for themselves.
 
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