Seeds of Contemporary Russiaphobia

dukkha

Verified User
The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

"America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government. (Nuland's "Fuck the EU" remarks)

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

Putin bit back, taking a leaf out of the US street-protest playbook – even though, as in Kiev, the protests that spread from Crimea to eastern Ukraine evidently have mass support. But what had been a glorious cry for freedom in Kiev became infiltration and insatiable aggression in Sevastopol and Luhansk.

After Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, the bulk of the western media abandoned any hint of even-handed coverage. So Putin is now routinely compared to Hitler, while the role of the fascistic right on the streets and in the new Ukrainian regime has been airbrushed out of most reporting as Putinist propaganda.

So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators and pogromists, or the arson attacks on the homes and offices of elected communist leaders, or the integration of the extreme Right Sector into the national guard, while the anti-semitism and white supremacism of the government's ultra-nationalists is assiduously played down, and false identifications of Russian special forces are relayed as fact.

The reality is that, after two decades of eastward Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit and defence structure, via an explicitly anti-Moscow EU association agreement. Its rejection led to the Maidan protests and the installation of an anti-Russian administration – rejected by half the country – that went on to sign the EU and International Monetary Fund agreements regardless.

No Russian government could have acquiesced in such a threat from territory that was at the heart of both Russia and the Soviet Union.
Putin's absorption of Crimea and support for the rebellion in eastern Ukraine is clearly defensive, and the red line now drawn: the east of Ukraine, at least, is not going to be swallowed up by Nato or the EU.

Meanwhile, the US and its European allies impose sanctions and dictate terms to Russia and its proteges in Kiev, encouraging the military crackdown on protesters after visits from Joe Biden and the CIA director, John Brennan.
But by what right is the US involved at all, incorporating under its strategic umbrella a state that has never been a member of Nato, and whose last elected government came to power on a platform of explicit neutrality?
It has none, of course – which is why the Ukraine crisis is seen in such a different light across most of the world. There may be few global takers for Putin's oligarchic conservatism and nationalism, but Russia's counterweight to US imperial expansion is welcomed, from China to Brazil.

In fact, one outcome of the crisis is likely to be a closer alliance between China and Russia, as the US continues its anti-Chinese "pivot" to Asia. And despite growing violence, the cost in lives of Russia's arms-length involvement in Ukraine has so far been minimal compared with any significant western intervention you care to think of for decades.

The risk of civil war is nevertheless growing, and with it the chances of outside powers being drawn into the conflict. Barack Obama has already sent token forces to eastern Europe and is under pressure, both from Republicans and Nato hawks such as Poland, to send many more. Both US and British troops are due to take part in Nato military exercises in Ukraine this summer.

The US and EU have already overplayed their hand in Ukraine. Neither Russia nor the western powers may want to intervene directly, and the Ukrainian prime minister's conjuring up of a third world war presumably isn't authorised by his Washington sponsors. But a century after 1914, the risk of unintended consequences should be obvious enough – as the threat of a return of big-power conflict grows.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
 
Guzman claimed that during the Ukrainian conflict, Washington and its NATO allies worked directly with right-wing Ukrainian Fascist groups, including the neo-Nazi inspired Right Sector militia.
International law professor at the University of Illinois College of Law Francis Boyle shares a similar opinion, also arguing also that Obama’s approach to Ukraine is no different to the neoconservative approach of former US national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, or political scientist Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” philosophy.

“I think he [Obama] has made it very clear that he is going to continue to take a Brzezinski hard-lined approach toward Ukraine and Russia and that there are not going to be any compromises at all, and effectively he expects President Putin to throw in a towel, capitulate, whatever, it does not appear to me there is any ground for negotiations in light of what President Obama at least said publicly,” he said in an email to Sputnik
https://www.globalresearch.ca/washi...ed-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142
 
Hit that 'reset' button.....quick !
somewhere along the way Hillary went full bore neocon.

She designed the Russian Reset to try to improve relations with the incoming 2009 Obama administration.

Then the Libyan war of 2011 ( chief advocate was Clinton) got her buying into Madeline Albright's
"responsibility to protect" - an unfinished idea floating around the UN.

Finally the election of 2016 turned her into a full throated Russiaphobe-blaming Macedonian bots ( among others) for her loss

"somewhere somehow somebody must've kicked you around some" ( T.Petty)
 
“I think he [Obama] has made it very clear that he is going to continue to take a Brzezinski hard-lined approach toward Ukraine and Russia and that there are not going to be any compromises at all, and effectively he expects President Putin to throw in a towel, capitulate, whatever, it does not appear to me there is any ground for negotiations in light of what President Obama at least said publicly,”
why the reset did not work. It's called " zero-sum game relationship". ( the polar opposite of realpolitik )

Any gains for Putin MUST be a net loss for NATO
Any gains for NATO/west MUST be a net loss for Putin.

Diplomacy and negotiations require give and take..Both sides must walk away with a perceived win
 
Maybe I'm still stuck in the '80's but I don't understand why I'm supposed to like Russia or Putin. Leaving aside he's an ex KGB authoritarian he's wrecking havic next to his borders then interfering in our elections. I don't like Hillary Clinton but I'm not going to start liking Putin because he doesn't like her either. Maybe I don't pay enough attention but I don't understand
 
Maybe I'm still stuck in the '80's but I don't understand why I'm supposed to like Russia or Putin. Leaving aside he's an ex KGB authoritarian he's wrecking havic next to his borders then interfering in our elections. I don't like Hillary Clinton but I'm not going to start liking Putin because he doesn't like her either. Maybe I don't pay enough attention but I don't understand
You don't have to like him,you do have to understand he has a powerful military with state of the art design.
By constantly punishing him, it drives him into a closer relationship with China
( while Russia is normally oriented towards the west.)

Russian military designs, coupled with Chinese resources mean we face a greatly strengthened axis.
That's why Obama and Trump both wanted to repair relations,and why Shrub wanted to deal with him.
It's along the same line Nixon used when he went to China -to separate China and Russian communism back then.

And there are good thing we could accomplish. a more peaceful, less confrontational, less money pit Europe conflict.
Cooperation for arctic resources development.
Freeing up our defense resources for confronting a rising China

And the more you get into it,the more you find out Putin isn't the only party with unclean hands.

We back fascists in the Ukraine Maiden ( Svoboda far right) and undermined the elected government
because Yanukovych was going to sign an economic partnership with Russia (instead of the EU) where Russia would forgive their debts. That's the "meddling in the Maiden" I frequently reference.

I suggest you read the OP carefully, some terminology you won't get, but you'll understand much more
then most Americans bother to even try. Good for you to think about this!
 
I bet it's freezing cold in St Petersburg and Moscow this time of year isn't it, noisenatta?

Do they keep a nice pot of fresh, hot coffee and donuts for you and your co-workers there at the Russian Troll Farm?

Hope so.
 
You don't have to like him,you do have to understand he has a powerful military with state of the art design.
By constantly punishing him, it drives him into a closer relationship with China
( while Russia is normally oriented towards the west.)

Russian military designs, coupled with Chinese resources mean we face a greatly strengthened axis.
That's why Obama and Trump both wanted to repair relations,and why Shrub wanted to deal with him.
It's along the same line Nixon used when he went to China -to separate China and Russian communism back then.

And there are good thing we could accomplish. a more peaceful, less confrontational, less money pit Europe conflict.
Cooperation for arctic resources development.
Freeing up our defense resources for confronting a rising China

And the more you get into it,the more you find out Putin isn't the only party with unclean hands.

We back fascists in the Ukraine Maiden ( Svoboda far right) and undermined the elected government
because Yanukovych was going to sign an economic partnership with Russia (instead of the EU) where Russia would forgive their debts. That's the "meddling in the Maiden" I frequently reference.

I suggest you read the OP carefully, some terminology you won't get, but you'll understand much more
then most Americans bother to even try. Good for you to think about this!

I get that we have to deal with unsavory characters around the world. It is what it is. But this guy is a crook who is sowing discord within our country with their hacking. I'm not in govt so I can say Fvck Russia and Putin. All those who laughed at Romney in '12 for comment don't seem to be laughing now
 
I get that we have to deal with unsavory characters around the world. It is what it is. But this guy is a crook who is sowing discord within our country with their hacking. I'm not in govt so I can say Fvck Russia and Putin. All those who laughed at Romney in '12 for comment don't seem to be laughing now
he didn't hack he meddled. But less then we did in Maiden or the Yeltsin election. Yes we deal with the bad guys too. Obama was all flash but no substance on his comment about "the 90's called and they want their foreign policy back"
The problem is Romney is going to be an uber-hawk in the Senate -replacing John McCain's role on Russia
 
Unless the OP says, "Doing things we should be wary of, suspicious of and constantly vigilant about," it's wrong.
relations are so in the deep freeze, not even 'trust but verify' is agreed on.
But the sooner we push back the paranoia on both sides,the better it will be for both.

Those super weapons are either a manifestation of Putin's paranoia to being called out on the carpet,
or he really does have some, or some are in development. They are all STEALTH and an existential threat.
Ratchet down these tensions. we are not even talking to each other
 
Maybe I'm still stuck in the '80's but I don't understand why I'm supposed to like Russia or Putin. Leaving aside he's an ex KGB authoritarian he's wrecking havic next to his borders then interfering in our elections. I don't like Hillary Clinton but I'm not going to start liking Putin because he doesn't like her either. Maybe I don't pay enough attention but I don't understand

This is why you are Deshtard stupid asswipe.

Nobody is saying you have to like the Russians. No wonder you are such a squish. You are such a binary thinker.

Don’t worry, you will likely get a chance to vote for Hillary again in 2020.
 
I get that we have to deal with unsavory characters around the world. It is what it is. But this guy is a crook who is sowing discord within our country with their hacking. I'm not in govt so I can say Fvck Russia and Putin. All those who laughed at Romney in '12 for comment don't seem to be laughing now

They aren’t laughing now, but only because it’s politically expedient [for now] to hype the Russian threat.

Imagine if you were off-planet for 4 years exploring the galaxy and you come back only to hear about Russia this, Russia that, ‘the Russians are coming’ and etc.

You’d think ‘wow, what did I miss?’. Russians sent tanks into Poland or something?

What you ‘missed’ was Russian trolls ‘attacking us’ with political memes on Twitter and FB.

And it’s exactly that ridiculous. It’s like something out of a SNL skit. And yes, the Russians are absolutely laughing at the hysteria it’s caused.

Other than that, we have Russia being Russia. They’ve been trying to affect our politics since before the Cold War. They are less a threat than NK. They are less apt to attack a major US city than Islamic terrorists are.

Noise is right: the threat from Russia will only be exacerbated by hysteria. Romney was right, Russia is a major geopolitical foe—-but please let it stop before we get into a pointless war with them.
 
The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

"America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government. (Nuland's "Fuck the EU" remarks)

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

Putin bit back, taking a leaf out of the US street-protest playbook – even though, as in Kiev, the protests that spread from Crimea to eastern Ukraine evidently have mass support. But what had been a glorious cry for freedom in Kiev became infiltration and insatiable aggression in Sevastopol and Luhansk.

After Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, the bulk of the western media abandoned any hint of even-handed coverage. So Putin is now routinely compared to Hitler, while the role of the fascistic right on the streets and in the new Ukrainian regime has been airbrushed out of most reporting as Putinist propaganda.

So you don't hear much about the Ukrainian government's veneration of wartime Nazi collaborators and pogromists, or the arson attacks on the homes and offices of elected communist leaders, or the integration of the extreme Right Sector into the national guard, while the anti-semitism and white supremacism of the government's ultra-nationalists is assiduously played down, and false identifications of Russian special forces are relayed as fact.

The reality is that, after two decades of eastward Nato expansion, this crisis was triggered by the west's attempt to pull Ukraine decisively into its orbit and defence structure, via an explicitly anti-Moscow EU association agreement. Its rejection led to the Maidan protests and the installation of an anti-Russian administration – rejected by half the country – that went on to sign the EU and International Monetary Fund agreements regardless.

No Russian government could have acquiesced in such a threat from territory that was at the heart of both Russia and the Soviet Union.
Putin's absorption of Crimea and support for the rebellion in eastern Ukraine is clearly defensive, and the red line now drawn: the east of Ukraine, at least, is not going to be swallowed up by Nato or the EU.

Meanwhile, the US and its European allies impose sanctions and dictate terms to Russia and its proteges in Kiev, encouraging the military crackdown on protesters after visits from Joe Biden and the CIA director, John Brennan.
But by what right is the US involved at all, incorporating under its strategic umbrella a state that has never been a member of Nato, and whose last elected government came to power on a platform of explicit neutrality?
It has none, of course – which is why the Ukraine crisis is seen in such a different light across most of the world. There may be few global takers for Putin's oligarchic conservatism and nationalism, but Russia's counterweight to US imperial expansion is welcomed, from China to Brazil.

In fact, one outcome of the crisis is likely to be a closer alliance between China and Russia, as the US continues its anti-Chinese "pivot" to Asia. And despite growing violence, the cost in lives of Russia's arms-length involvement in Ukraine has so far been minimal compared with any significant western intervention you care to think of for decades.

The risk of civil war is nevertheless growing, and with it the chances of outside powers being drawn into the conflict. Barack Obama has already sent token forces to eastern Europe and is under pressure, both from Republicans and Nato hawks such as Poland, to send many more. Both US and British troops are due to take part in Nato military exercises in Ukraine this summer.

The US and EU have already overplayed their hand in Ukraine. Neither Russia nor the western powers may want to intervene directly, and the Ukrainian prime minister's conjuring up of a third world war presumably isn't authorised by his Washington sponsors. But a century after 1914, the risk of unintended consequences should be obvious enough – as the threat of a return of big-power conflict grows.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Your article is from 2014...........
 
They aren’t laughing now, but only because it’s politically expedient [for now] to hype the Russian threat.

Imagine if you were off-planet for 4 years exploring the galaxy and you come back only to hear about Russia this, Russia that, ‘the Russians are coming’ and etc.

You’d think ‘wow, what did I miss?’. Russians sent tanks into Poland or something?

What you ‘missed’ was Russian trolls ‘attacking us’ with political memes on Twitter and FB.

And it’s exactly that ridiculous. It’s like something out of a SNL skit. And yes, the Russians are absolutely laughing at the hysteria it’s caused.

Other than that, we have Russia being Russia. They’ve been trying to affect our politics since before the Cold War. They are less a threat than NK. They are less apt to attack a major US city than Islamic terrorists are.

Noise is right: the threat from Russia will only be exacerbated by hysteria. Romney was right, Russia is a major geopolitical foe—-but please let it stop before we get into a pointless war with them.

The article is 4 years old...
 
This is why you are Deshtard stupid asswipe.

Nobody is saying you have to like the Russians. No wonder you are such a squish. You are such a binary thinker.

Don’t worry, you will likely get a chance to vote for Hillary again in 2020.

If you don't see the OP for what it is.... defense of and apologism for your hero Trump's puppet master Vladimir Putin, you are the one who is the Trumptard stupid asswipe.
 
If you don't see the OP for what it is.... defense of and apologism for your hero Trump's puppet master Vladimir Putin, you are the one who is the Trumptard stupid asswipe.


Good point.. The article is four years old and predicts that the Ukraine will start WW3.
 
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