Saudi Arabia’s bitch!

noise said:
the no fly and the assassination of Qadafi left Libya leaderless and with no real government institutions with the exception of the NOC
Elections were useless to unify and by 2014 the "2nd civil war" broke out which led to today's
chaos, unrest and failed 2 state government.

Libyan Civil War (2014–present)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2014–present)

In other words the vacuum of Qadafi's leadership led to militia rule ( both country/ citywide and neighborhoods) and with no real government ; Haftar and the Islamists went up against the 'transitional' government in Tripoli.

Haftar broke out Parliament, and shipped it to Tobruk/Bengazi and claimed he was the legit government.
Libya Dawn and the Islamists set up a rival governments in Tripoli -the "General National Congress". (GNC)

So if you think "what was the proximate cause of today's failed state of Libya" -
it all goes back to killing Qadafi/regime change.
NATO was responsible for that -so NATO is the proximate cause of todays' Libya
Click to expand...


That's what happens in every civil war.. Gaddafi was so afraid of the Libyan people that his military and police were all African mercenaries. The US had no way to keep him in power ..
 
anatta said:
they were removed from the report because they are unverified.
Political pressure for "Families of 9-11' got them released
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Wrong. I've read the redacted 28 pages. They clearly indicate the involvement of multiple foreign governments. It's Israel. Then there are the traitors inside the gates.
 
Controlled Opposition said:
Wrong. I've read the redacted 28 pages. They clearly indicate the involvement of multiple foreign governments. It's Israel. Then there are the traitors inside the gates.
Click to expand...

Israel didn't do 9-11 and neither did the Saudis.. It was AQ.. Remember that Atta was Egyptian and a devotee of the Muslim Brotherhood.

There were NO state actors.. just terrorists.
 
kudzu said:
That's what happens in every civil war.. Gaddafi was so afraid of the Libyan people that his military and police were all African mercenaries. The US had no way to keep him in power ..
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not ALL mercenaries,and yes a civil war means there is a fight for leadership. Two things to keep in mind though:

1. Even with all our airpower backing the NTC ;opposition could barely battle Qadafi- so if we had NOT gotten in,
chances are very good Qadafi would have put down the insurrection on his own.
At the very minimum it would have been fought by Libyans themselves over Libya -and NATO would not have been responsible for the outcome.

2. the US was not going to back Qadafi - no matter how the war went -nor would we have backed the opposition.
We would have stayed out except for the lies of "bombing protestors" /Viagra rape / and the international organizing
by Hillary to bring in the Arab League for legitimacy.

Nor would have Obama gotten in without the extreme pressure from Hillary to do so
( see the "tic toc on Libya" Email I just posted for details on her roles)
 
kudzu said:
Israel didn't do 9-11 and neither did the Saudis.. It was AQ.. Remember that Atta was Egyptian and a devotee of the Muslim Brotherhood.

There were NO state actors.. just terrorists.
Click to expand...

You of course realize we have partnered with "AQ" at various times.
 
noise said:
not ALL mercenaries,and yes a civil war means there is a fight for leadership. Two things to keep in mind though:

1. Even with all our airpower backing the NTC ;opposition could barely battle Qadafi- so if we had NOT gotten in,
chances are very good Qadafi would have put down the insurrection on his own.
At the very minimum it would have been fought by Libyans themselves over Libya -and NATO would not have been responsible for the outcome.

2. the US was not going to back Qadafi - no matter how the war went -nor would we have backed the opposition.
We would have stayed out except for the lies of "bombing protestors" /Viagra rape / and the international organizing
by Hillary to bring in the Arab League for legitimacy.

Nor would have Obama gotten in without the extreme pressure from Hillary to do so
( see the "tic toc on Libya" Email I just posted for details on her roles)
Click to expand...

Like Assad has put down the insurrection? Libyan refugees were pouring into Italy.. just like over 6 million Syrians have fled Assad's regime.
 
kudzu said:
Like Assad has put down the insurrection? Libyan refugees were pouring into Italy.. just like over 6 million Syrians have fled Assad's regime.
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Assad had well armed opposition groups ( we even did our part in that fiasco by arming the FSA, who fled in battle or leadership fled to turkey) leaving arms stashes for the Islamists like al-Nusra Front to pick up
It's a difficult comparison to make considering the amount of foreign fighters in Syria as well as ISIS
 
anatta said:
Assad had well armed opposition groups ( we even did our part in that fiasco by arming the FSA, who fled in battle or leadership fled to turkey) leaving arms stashes for the Islamists like al-Nusra Front to pick up
It's a difficult comparison to make considering the amount of foreign fighters in Syria as well as ISIS
Click to expand...

Foreign fighters didn't show up in Syria for 8 months.

In fact, the Saudis had a blitz campaign to prevent young Saudis from going to Syria on penalty of imprisonment. They said that foreign involvement would only make things worse for the Syrian people.
 
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anatta said:
Assad had well armed opposition groups ( we even did our part in that fiasco by arming the FSA, who fled in battle or leadership fled to turkey) leaving arms stashes for the Islamists like al-Nusra Front to pick up
It's a difficult comparison to make considering the amount of foreign fighters in Syria as well as ISIS
Click to expand...

Not in Feb 2011..
 
anatta said:
good factoid!
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If you look at Bashar's father... He was a savage dictator.. and look at the drought, unemployment, inflation in Syria between 2004- 2011, you can see the broken promises. Bashar promised reforms and instead decided to shoot the protesters that spring.. He imprisoned their children for grafitee.. for spray painting "you're next".
 
kudzu said:
If you look at Bashar's father... He was a savage dictator.. and look at the drought, unemployment, inflation in Syria between 2004- 2011, you can see the broken promises. Bashar promised reforms and instead decided to shoot the protesters that spring.. He imprisoned their children for grafitee.. for spray painting "you're next".
Click to expand...
The only good thing about the current Assad is that he's not an Islamic terrorist like the al-Nusra crowd..
for all the horrors of the Syrian war- and they are legion-what good was any of it? .

At least we mostly stayed out of it, unlike Libya
 
kudzu said:
IMO Trump doesn't matter.. He's borrowed money from many countries.

Kashoggi was an advocate for the Muslim Brotherhood and for Arab Spring.. He wanted to turn KSA into Libya or Syria.
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I know nothing about the late gentleman other than the little gleaned from articles about his murder. Even if what you say is accurate civilized nations employ a system of law and usually grant the accused a trial. Vivisection is not a punishment employed by advanced nations as much as we might cheer for it in certain cases.
 
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