San Francisco could be on the verge of collapse. What should California do about it?

CA manufacturing is cratering, the ag industry is getting slammed hard because for decades the state has neglected their water needs, they have far and away the worst poverty in the nation, and those who can get out before the big crash are leaving.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
SF is one of the prettiest cities in the nation, IMO.
It's small in area, like Boston, but a tad hilly to walk, especially at my age..

Lefty O'Doul's, my favorite hangout there, closed, however, so I'll probably not get back to the city.
In between two hundred dollar meals elsewhere, I could eat really cheap there, and I loved the décor.
There were faded photographs of boxing matches, for example, that I actually watched live as a child in the 1950s.

That notwithstanding, I hope they find solutions for their economic problems because it's a beautiful town.
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The obvious solution is to dump the radical Leftists running--ruining?--things there for a more centrist, moderate, and business friendly set of politics. But don't expect that to happen anytime soon...
 
archives said:
Wrong, California still leads the nation economically going away
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Two things can be true, the state can lead the country economically and still be facing major problems. The state has become just another proxy in the culture wars. People on the right see no good in it and people on the left think it above reproach.

We've all read history and know that because an individual, team, business, state or country is on top today does not mean its guaranteed to be on top in the future. All those articles are accurate in terms of people and businesses leaving. It's not all doom and gloom as we still have plenty of innovation here but people putting their heads in the sand regarding our challenges because they don't want to hear it from an ideological perspective do the state no favors.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
CA manufacturing is cratering, the ag industry is getting slammed hard because for decades the state has neglected their water needs, they have far and away the worst poverty in the nation, and those who can get out before the big crash are leaving.
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Manufacturing in Cali is dead. No sane company would make anything there. Silicon Valley turned into nothing but code monkeys and office workers. The "silicon" left for Texas and Arizona . The oil business is the next big one to leave. California is all but forcing the refineries to close. That will be an economic disaster not just for Cali, but for the nation as a whole. California already leads the nation in the number of homeless, people in poverty, people on welfare, etc.
The state is really just one minor economic downturn from disaster, and the government there is doubling down on stupid at the same time.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The obvious solution is to dump the radical Leftists running--ruining?--things there for a more centrist, moderate, and business friendly set of politics. But don't expect that to happen anytime soon...
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Centrists are people without testicles, actual or virtual, who can thus be comfortable straddling a fence.
It's impossible for people of real character to respect centrists.

The American business community is so short term oriented that if anything contributes to the necessary adoption of full-blown communism, it will be they.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Manufacturing in Cali is dead. No sane company would make anything there. Silicon Valley turned into nothing but code monkeys and office workers. The "silicon" left for Texas and Arizona . The oil business is the next big one to leave. California is all but forcing the refineries to close. That will be an economic disaster not just for Cali, but for the nation as a whole. California already leads the nation in the number of homeless, people in poverty, people on welfare, etc.
The state is really just one minor economic downturn from disaster, and the government there is doubling down on stupid at the same time.
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And too there is a great agreement that the states GDP numbers are BS. One thing that does not get talked about enough is how much federal money the state sucks in to support their promotion of illegal immigration.....they decide to violate the law, and we pay for it.
 
cawacko said:
If we're talking just street problems they are far from isolated to the Tenderloin. If that were the case you'd just tell people to avoid that area and everything else will be fine. But it's in the Mission, it's in SOMA as well as other neighborhoods.

The big issue is an economic one. The Tenderloin is not causing office buildings to be sitting at 30% vacancy and businesses around them to close, when vacancy was 4% in 2019. The Tenderloin didn't cause San Francisco to go from being the number one office market in the country in 2019 to where it is today.
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May not be, but it has to contribute to the reputation of the City’s inner circle which draws away from attracting residents
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Centrists are people without testicles, actual or virtual, who can thus be comfortable straddling a fence.
It's impossible for people of real character to respect centrists.

The American business community is so short term oriented that if anything contributes to the necessary adoption of full-blown communism, it will be they.
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The worst thing that can happen to any political polity is the radical Left gets in charge. History shows that very clearly. The radical Left has the Crapper Touch. Everything they touch turns into shit.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Manufacturing in Cali is dead. No sane company would make anything there. Silicon Valley turned into nothing but code monkeys and office workers. The "silicon" left for Texas and Arizona . The oil business is the next big one to leave. California is all but forcing the refineries to close. That will be an economic disaster not just for Cali, but for the nation as a whole. California already leads the nation in the number of homeless, people in poverty, people on welfare, etc.
The state is really just one minor economic downturn from disaster, and the government there is doubling down on stupid at the same time.
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Talk radio rhetoric
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The worst thing that can happen to any political polity is the radical Left gets in charge. History shows that very clearly. The radical Left has the Crapper Touch. Everything they touch turns into shit.
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Right, the 20th Century is famous for its GOP leaders, Harding, Coolidge, Hover, Nixon, Ford, took the nation to new levels
 
Hawkeye10 said:
And too there is a great agreement that the states GDP numbers are BS. One thing that does not get talked about enough is how much federal money the state sucks in to support their promotion of illegal immigration.....they decide to violate the law, and we pay for it.
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Then it should be easy for you to prove it, we’ll wait
 
cawacko said:
The San Francisco Chronicle editorial board thought that? I read the paper basically every day and don’t recall them taking that position but I’ll take your word for it.

You think them thinking that takes away from the potential doom loop being discussed?
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I wouldn't overthink it. San Fran will always be a romantic city robust with historic charm.

This just isn't the age of Aquarius, Psychedelic Music, and Haight Ashbury anymore as that generation is dying fast.

How is the Music scene there these days? Is Fisherman's Groto's still around? How about the Fillmore? Trolley Cars? Great Chinese food in China Town?

Hang onto those treasures and San Fran will never die!
 
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archives said:
Bullshit
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A tale of two states: Contrasting economic policy in California and Texas
https://siepr.stanford.edu/publicat...trasting-economic-policy-california-and-texas

California’s shrinking population has big impacts
Expansive projections of California’s population growth have been proven wrong and if anything, the state is now losing population with serious social and economic impacts.
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https://calmatters.org/commentary/2022/04/california-population-decline/

California is collapsing
Once seen as a progressive's paradise, the state is drifting towards a new kind of feudalism
https://unherd.com/2021/02/the-collapse-of-california/

Incredibly, California’s level of inequality is greater than that of neighbouring Mexico, and closer to Central American countries like Guatemala and Honduras than developed nations like Canada and Norway.
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https://www.pressreader.com/usa/woonsocket-call/20230120/281582359749928

California is going the way of Detroit or Pittsburg. Business and industry are on the way out being taxed and regulated to death. The latest one in California is the oil industry. The state is by regulation alone forcing that industry to close up shop and leave. There is nothing coming in to replace it either.
When workers have to live in substandard housing, or even are living in their cars, there's a serious problem going on, and that's where California is already at. The average wage earner in the state can't afford rent much of the time, let alone buy a house.

The state is in serious decline, and that is worsening not getting better.
 
cawacko said:
There's been talk of wanting to convert empty office buildings into apartments but it is expensive and very few pencil. You tend to have two types in SF. Ideologues and then people on the left who at least have a modicum of pragmatism. To the ideologues any reduction in requirements to build is seen as a sop to developers. Others recognize that we have a housing crisis and the approval process is so unwieldy and expensive that it has to be modified. The former has a lot of power so making changes isn't easy for the latter.

I've always appreciated what BART has offered. Post COVID a fair percentage of people that use it now are homeless, mentally ill, drug users, thieves etc. which scare off others from wanting to ride it. But not having it, or some sort of public transportation, will make the freeways unbearable. It's a really tough situation.
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Nothing's going to ever get done if no one has the political will to do it. Construction is virtually impossible in SF. What are the ideologues going to do if building becomes easier and less expensive? Move? Are they going to vote out some council members? They can either get over it or watch their city crumble.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A tale of two states: Contrasting economic policy in California and Texas
https://siepr.stanford.edu/publicat...trasting-economic-policy-california-and-texas

California’s shrinking population has big impacts

https://calmatters.org/commentary/2022/04/california-population-decline/

California is collapsing
Once seen as a progressive's paradise, the state is drifting towards a new kind of feudalism
https://unherd.com/2021/02/the-collapse-of-california/



https://www.pressreader.com/usa/woonsocket-call/20230120/281582359749928

California is going the way of Detroit or Pittsburg. Business and industry are on the way out being taxed and regulated to death. The latest one in California is the oil industry. The state is by regulation alone forcing that industry to close up shop and leave. There is nothing coming in to replace it either.
When workers have to live in substandard housing, or even are living in their cars, there's a serious problem going on, and that's where California is already at. The average wage earner in the state can't afford rent much of the time, let alone buy a house.

The state is in serious decline, and that is worsening not getting better.
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So what you offered in rebuttal was an article highlighting Texas’s economy, which still is substantially behind California’s, and another highlighting California losing citizens, although there still ten million more Californians than any other state. Next you top it off with two editorials from conservative leaning sources

And in conclusion you wrap it all up again regurgitating talk radio rhetoric

NEXT
 
archives said:
So what you offered in rebuttal was an article highlighting Texas’s economy, which still is substantially behind California’s, and another highlighting California losing citizens, although there still ten million more Californians than any other state. Next you top it off with two editorials from conservative leaning sources

And in conclusion you wrap it all up again regurgitating talk radio rhetoric

NEXT
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Thank you for that gratuitous and meaningless rebuttal.
 
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