Ryan: Don't interfere with legalized medical pot

Dixie said:
Again, common sense should tell you, if a majority of Americans supported legalization, we'd see both national parties vying for votes by adopting pro-legalization platforms, and we don't see that. That IS my counter-evidence! IF what you were saying were true, we'd see a concerted effort by BOTH parties to win the "pot vote!" WE DON'T! ....Why?
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A majority of Americans don't know that prohibition is the reason we have drug cartels, drug dealers with guns to protect their interests, little children getting their heads, arms, and legs cut off because of the money and associations centered around money, politicians, judges, and cops that are on the take. They think it's the drugs.

I could go on, but the truth is the truth. Anyone supporting prohibition is supporting all the evil associated with it. And they are the first to try to justify the trading of liberty for sucurity. And then they wonder why they have lost their liberties, and point their finger at something/someone other than themself.
 
Liberty said:
And most of these people were tax payers that victimized no one.
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ABSOLUTELY

Prison Industry Stealing U.S. Jobs

As if American businesses don’t have enough trouble competing with free traders, who exploit cheap labor in third world countries to make sizable profits, they are also fighting government-run corporations that pay prisoners pennies on the dollar to manufacture cheap goods and undercut private industry.

Is it any wonder that the United States has the highest rate of incarceration in the industrialized world? According to a recent report on cable news, the U.S. government is using federal prison inmates to steal business away from civilian manufacturers by producing comparable merchandise for pennies on the dollar.
http://americanfreepress.net/?p=5780
 
blackascoal said:
Crime PERIOD is big business for the American legal system. It necessitates police, judges, courts, lawyers, and all the crap in betweenBut if you think that all the costs of this circus come from drug busts then once again, you're wrong.

If you think that taxpayers aren't stuck with the bill, you're wrong.

If you think all the costs to society are found in a balance sheet, you're wrong.

Feel free to think whatever you want .. but the truth of America's failed war on drugs and its costs to this society are well known
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* APPLAUSE *
Bottom line. Costs are immeasurable in damage to members of society prosecuted, and society itself to maintain the apparatus parts listed above
 
blackascoal said:
And guess what?

US prison corporations exploiting nearly a million incarcerated people with sweatshop labor

Sweatshop labor is back with a vengeance. It can be found across broad stretches of the American economy and around the world. Penitentiaries have become a niche market for such work. The privatization of prisons in recent years has meant the creation of a small army of workers too coerced and right-less to complain.

Prisoners, whose ranks increasingly consist of those for whom the legitimate economy has found no use, now make up a virtual brigade within the reserve army of the unemployed whose ranks have ballooned along with the U.S. incarceration rate. The Corrections Corporation of America and G4S (formerly Wackenhut), two prison privatizers, sell inmate labor at subminimum wages to Fortune 500 corporations like Chevron, Bank of America, AT&T, and IBM.

These companies can, in most states, lease factories in prisons or prisoners to work on the outside. All told, nearly a million prisoners are now making office furniture, working in call centers, fabricating body armor, taking hotel reservations, working in slaughterhouses, or manufacturing textiles, shoes, and clothing, while getting paid somewhere between 93 cents and $4.73 per day.
http://dgrnewsservice.org/2012/04/2.../QUOTE] Wow, another reason to be disgusted!
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Dixie said:
Now you are jumping from pot to health care reform. Let's stick with the issue we are debating. The majority of Americans do not believe that we should have legalized marijuana in America, if they did, you would see both political parties supporting the idea, and in fact, Congress would have already acted to change the law.
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All that shows is that a majority of americans don't understand the constitution or dont' care about it.
 
Liberty said:
A majority of Americans don't know that prohibition is the reason we have drug cartels, drug dealers with guns to protect their interests, little children getting their heads, arms, and legs cut off because of the money and associations centered around money, politicians, judges, and cops that are on the take. They think it's the drugs.

I could go on, but the truth is the truth. Anyone supporting prohibition is supporting all the evil associated with it. And they are the first to try to justify the trading of liberty for sucurity. And then they wonder why they have lost their liberties, and point their finger at something/someone other than themself.
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Well you see, the modern pop culture has stigmatized 'prohibition' into a bad word. It immediately conjures an image of something that isn't a good thing, but that isn't always so. It's amazing when you examine our laws and realize how many things we have established prohibitions on. Are these all bad things that we shouldn't do? Should minors be allowed to buy cigarettes? Should college kids be able to walk into a convenience store and buy a bowl of heroin? Do you think we'd survive in a world where things aren't "prohibited?" I don't, and I'm not so sure I want to be around if it's tried.

You make great points about supporting the 'evils' associated with cartels and whatnot, but there are also evils in legalizing pot for all. Our society is not comprised of all libertarian people who have the good sense to use drugs responsibly and not cause problems. I wish we lived in such a reality, but we don't, and we won't ever. You would have enormous social problems if you just made pot legal like cigarettes. You'd see high school kids dropping out of school more, and you'd have an ever-increasing workforce of stoners who didn't want to be productive. Then you have the problem of what to do about people who drive buses and trains while stoned. When people start getting killed because someone was geeked on super-kush, what are you going to do about that?
 
Dixie said:
Well you see, the modern pop culture has stigmatized 'prohibition' into a bad word. It immediately conjures an image of something that isn't a good thing, but that isn't always so. It's amazing when you examine our laws and realize how many things we have established prohibitions on. Are these all bad things that we shouldn't do? Should minors be allowed to buy cigarettes? Should college kids be able to walk into a convenience store and buy a bowl of heroin? Do you think we'd survive in a world where things aren't "prohibited?" I don't, and I'm not so sure I want to be around if it's tried.

You make great points about supporting the 'evils' associated with cartels and whatnot, but there are also evils in legalizing pot for all. Our society is not comprised of all libertarian people who have the good sense to use drugs responsibly and not cause problems. I wish we lived in such a reality, but we don't, and we won't ever. You would have enormous social problems if you just made pot legal like cigarettes. You'd see high school kids dropping out of school more, and you'd have an ever-increasing workforce of stoners who didn't want to be productive. Then you have the problem of what to do about people who drive buses and trains while stoned. When people start getting killed because someone was geeked on super-kush, what are you going to do about that?
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I couldn't disagree more. One thing I've found to be true is that socially conservative people are some of the most fiscally liberal people in the world. They complain about their money being used to fund abortion, and other things, but have no problem funding things (such as a police state) that fiscal conservitves would have no part of. That's what we're really talking about. Social conservatives have no problem taking others money, at high levels, as long as it's used for things they agree with. As to persecute others.

If you think we should have prohibition on drugs, you should embrace Obamacare. You really can't have one without the other. When you tell a free person they can't do drugs, you're signing up to trade all your liberties.
 
Liberty said:
I couldn't disagree more. One thing I've found to be true is that socially conservative people are some of the most fiscally liberal people in the world. They complain about their money being used to fund abortion, and other things, but have no problem funding things (such as a police state) that fiscal conservitves would have no part of. That's what we're really talking about. Social conservatives have no problem taking others money, at high levels, as long as it's used for things they agree with. As to persecute others.

If you think we should have prohibition on drugs, you should embrace Obamacare. You really can't have one without the other. When you tell a free person they can't do drugs, you're signing up to trade all your liberties.
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Well now you are running away from our discussion and finding something to moan and bitch at social conservatives about, which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I'm not here defending social conservatives or what they do. I simply said, when we evaluate the "good" to legalization, we also have to evaluate the "bad" and that is common sense for most people. I get that you don't want to acknowledge the "bad" and you want to marginalize it by pointing to social conservative spending, but that doesn't negate what was presented.
 
blackascoal said:
ABSOLUTELY

Prison Industry Stealing U.S. Jobs

As if American businesses don’t have enough trouble competing with free traders, who exploit cheap labor in third world countries to make sizable profits, they are also fighting government-run corporations that pay prisoners pennies on the dollar to manufacture cheap goods and undercut private industry.

Is it any wonder that the United States has the highest rate of incarceration in the industrialized world? According to a recent report on cable news, the U.S. government is using federal prison inmates to steal business away from civilian manufacturers by producing comparable merchandise for pennies on the dollar.
http://americanfreepress.net/?p=5780
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I need to check into this. Thx
 
Dixie said:
Well now you are running away from our discussion and finding something to moan and bitch at social conservatives about, which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I'm not here defending social conservatives or what they do. I simply said, when we evaluate the "good" to legalization, we also have to evaluate the "bad" and that is common sense for most people. I get that you don't want to acknowledge the "bad" and you want to marginalize it by pointing to social conservative spending, but that doesn't negate what was presented.
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I told you I disagree. In my opinion a little child will die soon because of prohibition. A mobster will pay off a judge, and cop today, and so on, and so on. And we'll be less free because of it. No real security.
 
Dixie said:
Well now you are running away from our discussion and finding something to moan and bitch at social conservatives about, which has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I'm not here defending social conservatives or what they do. I simply said, when we evaluate the "good" to legalization, we also have to evaluate the "bad" and that is common sense for most people. I get that you don't want to acknowledge the "bad" and you want to marginalize it by pointing to social conservative spending, but that doesn't negate what was presented.
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of course, those that feel the need to debate between the good and the bad of things certainly need to ignore the fact that there's no constitutional authority to do such a thing.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
of course, those that feel the need to debate between the good and the bad of things certainly need to ignore the fact that there's no constitutional authority to do such a thing.
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The constitution certainly doesn't say we can't prohibit things. There is a process laid out for specifically how we are to go about it, and that doesn't include a government mandate upon high, by government officials. Now you can CLAIM there is no constitutional authority for this or that; I have a friend who is supposedly a constitutional law grad, who claims 99% of the stuff the cops arrest you for is unconstitutional. But you better believe, if the cops decide to arrest you, they aren't going to be moved by your opinion.
 
Dixie said:
The constitution certainly doesn't say we can't prohibit things. There is a process laid out for specifically how we are to go about it, and that doesn't include a government mandate upon high, by government officials.
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the power to prohibit possession is based upon the commerce clause, but anyone with any ounce of intellectual honesty knows that someone growing a small amount of marijuana in their backyard, for their own use, not to sell to anyone, is not engaging in commerce. Yet most people are quite comfortable with the bullshit legalese explanation that the supremes have given for a number of things that CLEARLY violate the boundaries of government authority according to the constitution.

Dixie said:
Now you can CLAIM there is no constitutional authority for this or that; I have a friend who is supposedly a constitutional law grad, who claims 99% of the stuff the cops arrest you for is unconstitutional. But you better believe, if the cops decide to arrest you, they aren't going to be moved by your opinion.
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which is why not only should the people give up their apathetic attitude and learn the laws they are to be governed by, but also know that when cops move to arrest you unlawfully, you kill them, plain and simple.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
the power to prohibit possession is based upon the commerce clause, but anyone with any ounce of intellectual honesty knows that someone growing a small amount of marijuana in their backyard, for their own use, not to sell to anyone, is not engaging in commerce. Yet most people are quite comfortable with the bullshit legalese explanation that the supremes have given for a number of things that CLEARLY violate the boundaries of government authority according to the constitution.

which is why not only should the people give up their apathetic attitude and learn the laws they are to be governed by, but also know that when cops move to arrest you unlawfully, you kill them, plain and simple.
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Yep, you sound just like my liberal hippie constitutional law grad friend. He claims you can say the magic words "corpus delicti" to any judge, and have your case dismissed immediately, and they will usher you out of the courtroom before anyone notices what you've said. I've never tested his theory.

Marijuana is classified as a narcotic, and if you are growing it, you are 'producing' a narcotic. If you have more than a quarter-ounce (in AL) on your person, in a public place, it is considered "intent to distribute" and I think that is under the commerce clause. Whether "corpus delicti" works on this, I have no idea, but I am fairly certain plugging cops who you think don't have the right to arrest you, is not going to work out well for you at the end of the day.
 
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