moon
Satire for Sanity
And you are aligned with whom, exactly ?
Haw, haw............................................haw.
Remember- you kicked it off- just like fucking Zelensky.
Russia ready for talks. Ukraine must undergo ' denazification '
- Thread starter moon
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And you are aligned with whom, exactly ?
Haw, haw............................................haw.
Remember- you kicked it off- just like fucking Zelensky.
moon
Satire for Sanity
So-- you have a ' position ' on China ?
Pompous poseur.
Haw, haw.............................haw.
What we get when we lower trade barriers is better access to foreign markets. Whether that will help or hurt people is something that can be tested with the data. As you know, since the WTO, pretty much every measure of well-being for the middle class has improved.
Are you talking about that loser who twice failed to get the popular vote?
I'm aligned with the truth. That's a strange concept, I know, for those of you who taking your marching orders from Putin.
Of course I do. Ask Putin what your position is on the topic and then get back to me.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
blah blah blah.
yes it's good for the 1%. everyone acknowledges that.
it's shit for everyone else.
Actually, if you reread, the indicators I've been talking about are relevant to the middle class, not the 1%. Compare where we are today to where we were the year before the WTO and NAFTA. Are real MEDIAN incomes up or down? Is the poverty rate up or down? How about the unemployment rate? Crime rates? Home ownership rates? Are household debt payment eating up more or less of disposable personal income?
Answer those questions honestly and you should spot the issue with your talking points.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
I have no doubt. For people who don't care about facts, even a position that is clearly at odds with all available evidence can be satisfactory. For me, though, I come at things from the opposite direction entirely. I don't start with the conclusion. I start by researching the data, then I form my conclusions around what I find. When it comes to NAFTA and the WTO, the simple fact is that during the couple decades directly before them, things were getting worse for the middle class, whereas in the decades since, things have improved. Those are facts, and they helped me to come to conclusions about global trade.
I know I am. You're welcome.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
these are the facts.
It is by now well-known that the period from the mid-1980s to today has been the period of the greatest reshuffle of personal incomes since the Industrial Revolution. It’s also the first time that global inequality has declined in the past two hundred years. The “winners” were the middle and upper classes of the relatively poor Asian countries and the global top 1%. The (relative) “losers” were the people in the lower and middle parts of rich countries’
https://hbr.org/2016/05/why-the-glo...ed-the-most-from-globalization?referral=00060
Allowing China into the WTO was a disaster . we win our trade cases but have no recourse
which is why Trump wanted bi lateral with China instead of the WTO being an arbiter
China joined rules-based trading system — then broke the rules
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/09/china-wto-20-years-524050
Monad Portal
Was it me?
thank you, sir.
See what your quotation is doing there? It's conflating the period from 1994 onward (the period after NAFTA and the WTO became law, and international trade picked up sharply in the US), with the 1980s and early 1990's -- an era before that trade liberalization, when the big policy changes were things like upper-class tax cuts, the erosion of the minimum wage, and aggressive action by the president to gut labor unions and cut social spending. In the 1980's through early 1990's, income inequality rose rapidly, incomes were stagnant, poverty increased, and unemployment rates were persistently high. After NAFTA and the WTO, income inequality grew at a MUCH lower rate, poverty fell, incomes grew robustly, and unemployment rates plunged. If you need a link to the Census's GINI index data to confirm for yourself, let me know, and I'll provide it.
Monad Portal
Was it me?
are you talking worldwide? I concede asian workers have been lifted up, if you call wage slavery lifted up.
I care about america first, and we've been undeniably harmed.
No. I'm referring to US statistics, specifically. In the decades leading up to WTO and NAFTA, poverty rose, incomes stagnated, unemployment stayed stubbornly high, and income inequality rose quickly. After WTO and NAFTA, poverty fell, incomes soared, unemployment plunged, and income inequality rose more slowly.
I'm denying it, because of the facts I just laid out. Do you have any indicators showing things were going better in the years before those changes than in the years after?
Monad Portal
Was it me?
inequality still rose. the massive gains are mostly for the 1%.
despite your hard sell, most understand globalization only helps the rich.
You can cover over a lot of bad decisions with bubble crafting and fake money, but only for a while.
moon
Satire for Sanity
No- those that consult ALL narratives are ' aligned with the truth ' - and you've already turned a blind eye to anything that isn't sugared-Zelenskyism, diumbass.
moon
Satire for Sanity
My position on China ?
Haw, haw..............................haw.
Just look at yourself, you pompous poseur.
Haw, haw...........................................haw.
moon
Satire for Sanity
In the year ending June 2020, the SUN newspaper posted a pre-tax £202m loss, a significant increase from £67.8m the previous year. The majority of the loss, 80%, was thought to be from payments in damages from phone hacking, although revenue from sales and advertising was being affected by the COVID-19 pandemic. The value of the newspaper was written down by £84m, in effect to zero, with the company believing that The Sun and Sun on Sunday will not return to growth.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Circulation_and_profitability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Circulation_and_profitability