Rough Libertarian Critique of Conservatives

I'm shocked to see Solitary resort to using the definitions established by a group itself as the definition for said group.

No disrespect DY, but you are the only one who thinks the author is somehow lying by calling it a supposedly conservative Congress. A conservative Congress that battled the hell out of Bill Clinton on the budget in the '90's is what I, and I would surmise many others, expected when Bush took office. Instead we all know what they did but it doesn't take away what they said they stood for and what we expected out of them.
 
I'm shocked to see Solitary resort to using the definitions established by a group itself as the definition for said group.

I'm shocked you still pretend to participate in debates. I guess its a shocking sorta day.
 
"NON-NEGOTIABLE CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY
1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally.
2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
3. Stronger Military Is Essential.
4. Special Interests Eliminated.
5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
6. Government Must Be Downsized.
7. National Budget Must Be Balanced.
8. Deficit Spending Will End.
9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory.
12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
13. Intrusive Government Stopped.
14. English As Core Language Is Required.
15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged."
http://

These also happen to be the core beliefs of the Neo-Con party, you know, those assholes whose existence DY denies yet also claims Bush II's replublican majority congress was not conservative, and you all agree with him.

No shit they weren't conservatives, they were Neo-Cons.
Many members may have simply been dumb ass republicans but they still voted lockstep with the neo-cons.

Now that the country repudiated the neo-coms, they have simply taken over the Tea Party, like a demon during an exorsism. This explains the completely oxymoronic inclusion of item #3, stronger military is essential.

Stronger than what? We already have the worlds largest military budget. It is half or more of our budget. Can you say military industrial complex?
Items 3, 6,10 and 11 are incompatible.

The list is taken directly from the Neo-con play book with little or no modification.

I am sorry, but the Teap Party is a flop. It is over.
You, it's followers, have been misdirected. Remember, this is what the evil neo-con bastards are good at.

Look at yourselves for Christ's sake!
Defending Sarah Palin.
Acting as if, with Bachmon, I mean, give me a fucking break!

Bachmon is;
A. A moron
B. Amoral
C. A liar
D. A former IRS agent
E. A hypocrite or a religious fanatic, you decide.

For God's sake, it is over. Get out now, and kill this last NeoCon attempt as quickly as possible.
 
Well since you posted core Tea Party beliefs allow me to critique them
Here are the core beliefs of the Tea Party:

"NON-NEGOTIABLE CORE BELIEFS OF THE TEA PARTY - Non-Negotiable in politics is egotistical, extremist, ideological, impractical and naive. There are 300 million people in this nation. You can't govern if you can't reach out and make appropriate compromise. This tenet alone puts the Tea Party out of the mainstream and on the fringes of extremism.

1. Illegal Aliens Are Here Illegally. Well thank you for stating the obvious. No kidding their here illegally. What is the Tea Parties solution to the problem?? Comprehensive immigration reform or building a wall on the Mexican border and patrolling it with armed soldiers?

2. Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable. This is stupid, name one sane person who thinks pro-foreign employment is indispensable?

3. Stronger Military Is Essential. This is not only stupid it's down right dangerous. No, we don't need a stronger military. Hell we all ready have the strongest military in the world. We spend more then twice what the rest of the world does combined on our military and we have economically overreached and overextended our selves economically. Not only are these military expenditures not proportional to any defense threat to this nation by grossly ballooning the size of our military we jeopardize our own freedom and history is replete with examples of republics and democracies that have fell due to militarization. If this is a core non-negotiable belief of the Tea Party the deserve to be utterly rejected on this insane lunacy alone!

4. Special Interests Eliminated. And prey tell how are you going to do that with out re-writing our Constitution?

5. Gun Ownership Is Sacred. No, God is sacred. My family is sacred. Gun ownership is a right and a responsibility.

6. Government Must Be Downsized. No, Government must be the right size to meet the needs and provide the services that the people of this nations determine it should

7. National Budget Must Be Balanced. Really? And what about times of emergencies? We could have never won WWII with this non-negotiable core belief written in stone. Our fiscus must be managed responsibly and wisely and as conditions merit. It is up to us to be vigilent that government does so.

8. Deficit Spending Will End. See comments on #7. The same applies here.

9. Bail-Out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal. Empty rhetoric. Of course they are legal and, depending on the circumstances, some times appropriate. This core belief is beyond inane.

10. Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must. More ideological non-sense. We need just the right amount of taxes to pay for government services and public infrastructure that inhances all our lives and the burden must be shared fairly. We all ready have historically low tax rates that have, combined with run away military spending, that have put us into our current fiscal crises. This core belief when combined with core belief #3 is beyond irrational. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Something has to give here and we all ready have historically low tax rates.

11. Reduce Business Income Taxes Are Mandatory. Again, ideological nonsense. American corporations benefit hugely from the public infrastructure and services provided by US tax payers and they need to pay their fair share! Corporate taxation, with all the loopholes available are also at historical lows to the ludicrous point that billion dollar corporations no longer pay taxes. This core belief is not only irrational and irresponsible, it's border line insane!

12. Political Offices Available To Average Citizens. What the hell does this mean? Are you saying the average person can't run for office? More rhetorical non-sense!

13. Intrusive Government Stopped. Again, more rhetorical nonsense. Name one person who wants intrusive government? Name one person who wants that, just one!

14. English As Core Language Is Required. Really, and what about freedom of speech? Again, rhetorical non-sense geared towards the xenophobic. Who the hell doesn't want immigrants to assimilate? Hell most immigrants want to assimilate.

15. Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged." Well that's damned generous of you not to mandate them :rolleyes:

http://www.teaparty.org/about.php



Now, you can continue to claim that freaks like Tancredo are saying what the Tea Party is, but that is no more accurate than saying Al Sharpeton is the voice of the Democratic party.


Now what say we get back to the OP topic?
 
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Non-Negotiable in politics is egotistical, extremist, ideological, impractical and naive. There are 300 million people in this nation. You can't govern if you can't reach out and make appropriate compromise.

know how I know that you're full of shit? because you didn't give a damn about reaching out, or compromising when it came time to deal with health care reform. It was your way or the highway. so no, I do not buy your line of crap about compromising.
 
No disrespect DY, but you are the only one who thinks the author is somehow lying by calling it a supposedly conservative Congress. A conservative Congress that battled the hell out of Bill Clinton on the budget in the '90's is what I, and I would surmise many others, expected when Bush took office. Instead we all know what they did but it doesn't take away what they said they stood for and what we expected out of them.

Look, this guy made blanket accusations about conservatives, then cited examples of what moderate/ liberal republicans did as his justification. It's total bullshit.
 
know how I know that you're full of shit? because you didn't give a damn about reaching out, or compromising when it came time to deal with health care reform. It was your way or the highway. so no, I do not buy your line of crap about compromising.

I simply defy you to post a link to a statement of mine to that affect. I defy you.
 
Look, this guy made blanket accusations about conservatives, then cited examples of what moderate/ liberal republicans did as his justification. It's total bullshit.

Do you think the Republican led Congress was conservative in the '90's?
 
I simply defy you to post a link to a statement of mine to that affect. I defy you.

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...eform-to-Succeed&highlight=health+care+reform

not sure if it was this one or not, but it had to do with the order of process to pass this bill.

it was

1) pass the bill in it's current form to force insurance companies to cover all people first

2) then fix prices.

there was no way you would do it the other way around, it had to be this way. you said it.
 
You mean under Gingrich? They had bouts with conservatism. Even Reagan had a nasty habit of choosing the least conservative option.

So in reality there are no actual conservatives?

Edit: Maybe better stated would be do you believe there are any actual conservatives and if so who are they?
 
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know how I know that you're full of shit? because you didn't give a damn about reaching out, or compromising when it came time to deal with health care reform. It was your way or the highway. so no, I do not buy your line of crap about compromising.

That's all you've got?

What about the other 15 valid points he made?
 
I'm not sure that the question of whether or not there have ever been true conservatives running the show is the question this article brings up.

The question would be can the fiscal conservatives separate themselves from the social conservatives and get something done?
 
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...eform-to-Succeed&highlight=health+care+reform

not sure if it was this one or not, but it had to do with the order of process to pass this bill.

it was

1) pass the bill in it's current form to force insurance companies to cover all people first

2) then fix prices.

there was no way you would do it the other way around, it had to be this way. you said it.

You failed to prove your point. Where in all of this have I refused to compromise? I've simply listed the fundamental steps required to successfully reform health care in our nation to modernize it to the standards used successfully by the rest if the industrialized world and that if these steps were not followed then reform would probably fail. Where have I refused to compromise on how this is achieved?
 
I'm not sure that the question of whether or not there have ever been true conservatives running the show is the question this article brings up.

The question would be can the fiscal conservatives separate themselves from the social conservatives and get something done?
I don't know if that's a requirement. The point is the converse is also true. One shouldn't have to be a social conservative to be a fiscal conservative and neither should be required to be a Republican. I know all sorts of pro-business Republicans who don't really give a rats ass about any of this ideological stuff. They want what's good for business.
 
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