Republican wakes up!

Cowgirl Tuff said:
I believe that a faith based organization should be able to hire whoever they want and also be able to deny services to anybody that goes against their sincerely held beliefs. If a private business based in faith wants to only hire people that share that faith then I am ok with that. Same if a private organization wants to deny service for something that goes against their faith and principles. Likewise if I disagreed with the religious beliefs of an organization I wouldn't try to get a job with them and I wouldn't seek out their services.
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As long as they are not using tax payer dollars or public services provided for by the tax payers in the course of doing their business than you're correct. Once they cross that line they have to follow the law of the land meaning they cannot discriminate based on race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation. You have to provide service to all comers per the law. If the Churches and people of faith don't want to abide by that law they are certainly free to do their business without tax payer support or using taxpayer supported services. Which would make it pretty much impossible to do business in a public setting but that's their problem. Not mine as I'm obeying the law.

Same applies to political activism by Churches and other Houses of faith. If they want to be directly involved in political advocacy of candidates or political parties than they should lose their tax exempt status. The price to enter the dance (public politics) is paying taxes. I have no problem with Churches being involved in public politics...as long as they are pulling their fair share and paying taxes. Churches don't get to have it both way and be free riding moochers on our political system. They can enjoy their tax exempt status and not be directly involved in political advocacy or they can exercise their political rights, which they are certainly free to do but they lose their tax exempt status if they do so. That's the choice they have and their certainly free to make it.
 
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evince said:
how does he know they are skin heads?


How do you know someone is gay?
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What if they say they are? What if the Jewish man is a baker and owns a cake shop and a neo nazi wants a swastika cake? Seems like an indicator to me. Similarly a Christian baker being asked to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Both owners should be able to say no since it's their business and their principles attached to the thing they are making.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
As long as they are not using tax payer dollars or public services provided for by the tax payers in the course of doing their business than you're correct. Once they cross that line they have to follow the law of the land meaning they cannot discriminate based on race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation. You have to provide service to all comers per the law of the land.
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I would agree that if you are collecting public tax money then you should serve the public.
 
Cowgirl Tuff said:
What if they say they are? What if the Jewish man is a baker and owns a cake shop and a neo nazi wants a swastika cake? Seems like an indicator to me. Similarly a Christian baker being asked to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Both owners should be able to say no since it's their business and their principles attached to the thing they are making.
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all they have to say is we don't make those

can I get you something else
 
Cowgirl Tuff said:
If it's a private business and they are denied service, even by accident, they should bring their business elsewhere. If a business makes too many mistake then their business will hurt naturally.
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and your ideas are very un-American

the proof is you are In a vast minority that ignores the constitution when it suits you
 
evince said:
all they have to say is we don't make those

can I get you something else
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If it's a custom cake shop then they can basically make anything or at least come close. Regardless the private owner should still be able to say no in my opinion. It's their business.
 
evince said:
and your ideas are very un-American

the proof is you are In a vast minority that ignores the constitution when it suits you
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I believe that my perspective is the most "American" since it gives both the owner and the customer the right to association or not to associate. If a business only serves one type of people then maybe in that community they will succeed and maybe they won't, but it's the owners choices that will determine that long term success. I think denying service to blacks for racists reasons would ultimately lead to a failed business but it's my choice to either help it by giving them my money or hurt them by going to the business next door that isn't run by a racist
 
evince said:
and your ideas are very un-American

the proof is you are In a vast minority that ignores the constitution when it suits you
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The debate is more legit than you're giving it credit for. America, more than anything, is about liberty. By forcing businesses to behave against their will, you're restricting their liberty.

That, of course, has to be weighed against our laws regarding discrimination.

I think it's a fine line. I think the bakery owner made a good argument when he said he had no problem serving homosexuals, but drew the line at actually participating in a gay wedding. It seems more un-American to me to force the latter.
 
the person has done nothing to harm the establishment



what if you refuse them because you THINK they are gay


can they sue you if they are not?
 
evince said:
the person has done nothing to harm the establishment



what if you refuse them because you THINK they are gay


can they sue you if they are not?
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Sue for what exactly? Why would you want to give them business anyway if they don't want it?
 
Cowgirl Tuff said:
Ok well this line of conversation is over. I replied to a previous comment relating to the actual topic which is not me.
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Debating Desh is like sawing your own leg off without anesthesia. Pretty senseless. LOL

There's much to be gained by discussing issues from others who think differently than you. That not usually going to happen with extreme ideologues like Desh or Ted Cruz. ;)
 
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