relative spending for walker recall

Haiku said:
Provide a link then.
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how many times do we have to provide the fucking link?.......one is a reference to a Huffington Post article, the other is to the Wisconsin State Journal.....both have been linked twice already.....if you want it again go get it yourself......
 
Bijou said:
He's comparing what was raised for Republican candidates, to what was raised for ALL OTHER Democratic parties, PACS, recall committees, etc.

He's light in the reading-comprehension department.

The graphic in that link breaks it all down.
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lol.....so is it Walker's fault that the Democrats wasted all their money on primaries?.......that doesn't mean he outspent them, it just means they were really really stupid.....
 
Damocles said:
They aren't listed there... If you take all the money they list and subtract it from the number they list as the guesstimated total, they are missing close to $30 million. They glossed over the stuff they knew you didn't want to hear. That $30 Million was spent on stuff that was anti-Walker... They just don't list it at all.

Just taking the stats given you can simply read what they did. They mention independent orgs "for" Walker, but gloss over indepedent orgs "against" Walker (for Barrett). They only list the last candidate standing, ignoring millions spent on other candidates eventually defeated (anti-Walker, not necessarily pro-Barrett)...

It doesn't take more than logic and an open mind to simply read what was provided and note these discrepancies.

They want you to believe that they had no shot at winning because they were outspent, but they do it by simply not listing a bunch of stuff spent "for" the effort to remove Walker.
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I'm sorry but I don't follow even with your extensive reasoning you have no stats to back up what your saying. Where are you getting your numbers?

<on edit>
I guess you missed the 'some' in the sentences regarding the listing of money and where it came from...is that the problem. An open mind would have something to say about the information provided...yet you say nothing about the problem this money is causing. Do you honestly feel that we have a functioning democracy after citizen's united? Do you think we need to get money out of our elections? Are corporations people that are above the law (try to prosecute one or hold them accountable)
 
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Haiku said:
I'm sorry but I don't follow even with your extensive reasoning you have no stats to back up what your saying. Where are you getting your numbers?

<on edit>
I guess you missed the 'some' in the sentences regarding the listing of money and where it came from...is that the problem. An open mind would have something to say about the information provided...yet you say nothing about the problem this money is causing. Do you honestly feel that we have a functioning democracy after citizen's united? Do you think we need to get money out of our elections? Are corporations people that are above the law (try to prosecute one or hold them accountable)
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No, I noted that they directly listed money spent by independent entities for one, but ignored it for the other. Literally just didn't mention it. They gave a guesstimate of how much was spent then list monies spent for Walker that run about 30 Million short... It's simple math, not "extensive reasoning"...

The article was clearly written to give people who want to pretend that it was "bought" by "the bad guys" a way to ignore the reality... I'd ask that if you were a politician faced with money coming in from unions across the nation to support so many candidates to remove you, would you take money from sources outside your state to maintain your ability to do what you believe to be the right thing?

Anyway, to those people I would ask:

What amount of money spent on ads would make you vote against your principles?

The people in this election made it clear in the exit polling that they voted for Walker because they didn't believe that the recall effort was justified. That is a principle. How much more money do you think the Unions should have spent to make changes to the minds of those citizens' principle beliefs?
 
Damocles said:
No, I noted that they directly listed money spent by independent entities for one, but ignored it for the other. Literally just didn't mention it. They gave a guesstimate of how much was spent then list monies spent for Walker that run about 30 Million short... It's simple math, not "extensive reasoning"...
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I'm posting the list and you can explain how they ignored it for 'the other'...simple math or not perhaps I should have said 'extensive explanation' meaning you took the time...
Damocles said:
The article was clearly written to give people who want to pretend that it was "bought" by "the bad guys" a way to ignore the reality... I'd ask that if you were a politician faced with money coming in from unions across the nation to support so many candidates to remove you, would you take money from sources outside your state to maintain your ability to do what you believe to be the right thing?

Anyway, to those people I would ask:

What amount of money spent on ads would make you vote against your principles?

The people in this election made it clear in the exit polling that they voted for Walker because they didn't believe that the recall effort was justified. That is a principle. How much more money do you think the Unions should have spent to make changes to the minds of those citizens' principle beliefs?
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There were many things about this recall election process that were a success for the democrats...they took back the Senate and other seats in the state government. When you're outspent 7-1 you lose...that's a given however I agree there were many who felt that the recall only with legal cause folks and something like 35% of union households voted for Walker...I still would call this a win.

You don't seem to be of the mind that Citizens United has made null and void the one man one vote concept or do you think all this money is just speech and the one with the most wins because they are obviously the most deserving? Most of this dark money on Walkers side was spent starting last December and filled with outright lies...'there is a surplus' etc.

Here are the numbers from the article:
$63.5 million: The minimum amount spent by both sides in the recall

70 percent: How much more expensive the governor's recall election is than the state's second-most expensive race (the 2010 gubernatorial campaign)

$30.5 million: Amount raised by Walker to fight off the recall effort

$3.9 million: Amount raised by his challenger, Tom Barrett, the Democratic mayor of Milwaukee

About 2/3: Proportion of Walker's donations that have come from donors outside Wisconsin

About 1/4: Proportion of Barrett's donations that have come from donors outside Wisconsin

Unlimited: Maximum individual donation Walker may accept under state law

$10,000: Maximum individual donation Barrett may accept under state law

$16.3 million: Amount spent by pro-Walker independent expenditure groups, which have invested $22 million in the Wisconsin recall


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Some of the biggest contributions and expenditures in support of Walker:

• $510,000 to Walker from Diane Hendricks, Wisconsin's richest businesswoman and a member of Charles and David Koch's million-dollar donor club

• $490,000 to Walker from Bob Perry, a Houston homebuilder who with his wife has spent more than $8 million on the 2012 elections

• $260,000 to Walker from David Humphreys, a member of the Kochs' million-dollar donor club

• $250,000 to Walker from Amway founder Dick DeVos of Michigan, a member of the Kochs' million-dollar donor club

• $250,000 to Walker from Las Vegas casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, who with his wife has spent more than $25 million on the 2012 elections

• $100,000 to Walker from Wyoming investor Foster Friess, a member of the Kochs' million-dollar donor club

• $100,000 to Walker from New York billionaire Louis Bacon, a media-shy hedge-fund trader

• $100,000 to Walker from Dallas oil and gas billionaire Trevor Rees-Jones

• $6.5 million on ads spent by Americans for Prosperity, Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, and the anti-labor Center for Union Facts

• $4 million on ads spent by the Republican Governors Association's Right Direction Wisconsin PAC; only about $7,000 was raised in-state. The RGA got $1 million from David Koch in February. It's also received $500,000 from the US Chamber of Commerce



Some of the biggest contributions and expenditures in support of Barrett:

• $200,000 to the America Votes Action Fund, a Democratic super-PAC, from Fred Eychaner, a reclusive media mogul and Obama bundler from Chicago*

• $1 million to the We Are Wisconsin Political Fund, an independent expenditure group run by state AFL-CIO president Phil Neuenfeldt, from the National Education Association's super-PAC

• $500,000 to We Are Wisconsin from the Service Employees International Union; $500,000 from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees; and $350,000 from the American Federation of Teachers

• $1.3 million to Greater Wisconsin, an independent expenditure shop, from We Are Wisconsin; $900,000 from the Democratic Governors Association; $500,000 from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees

• $2 million on ads spent by the Greater Wisconsin Committee, GW's 501(c)(4) branch

Correction: This post originally stated that Fred Eychaner donated directly to Tom Barrett, who was limited by law to maximum individual donations of $10,000.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/06/wisconsin-walker-recall-money-stats
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Nearly $44 million was spent on recall elections targeting nine Wisconsin state lawmakers after a clash over collective bargaining rights, and unions and conservative special interest groups led the way, according to estimates being released Tuesday. The Wisconsin Democracy Campaign based its estimates on reports filed with the state and assumptions on how much was spent by groups that don't have to report.

Democrats beat two Republican incumbents in the recalls, falling one seat short of what they needed to win majority control in the state Senate.

The report found Democrats and their backers outspent Republicans $23.4 million to $20.5 million in this summer's recalls.
Outside groups outspent the candidates themselves $34.5 million to $8 million. The advantage for Democrats also was seen in outside spending, as they generated $18.6 million compared to $15.9 million for Republicans.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/wisconsin-recall-elections-money_n_971599.html


Liberals have no problem with spending money as long as they get a win.
 
The thing that's never really talked about much with money is how much time & effort it takes to raise it. We have people who should be running states & the country spending incredible amounts of time on fundraising.

With congresspeople who serve 2 year terms, they literally spend close to have their term raising money.
 
Onceler said:
It's a flaw in the system. The people who need to pass the laws are the primary beneficiaries of the huge sums of money.

The founders missed that one.
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remember the 'soft' money exemption

however, i doubt that campaign finance reform will ever get through congress - they need the money too much

or you could vote against whoever receives the most 'anonymous' money
 
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