Paul Sancya / AP 10 hours Raise the Minimum Wage? Foes Say They'll Stop Tipping???

[Mott the Hoople]

That would be my thought why we tip as well. If we change the structure so that servers make the same amount of money but it is in the form of all salary instead low wage and tips does that make diners selfish and greedy for not tipping as Zappa suggested?

Again....that all depends on how that server performs. My brother made a six figure income working in the service industry. When attending a dinner or a party or an event the quality of service is half if not 3/4ths of the experience. When my brother organized a party or a dinner his servers could make you feel as if you were royalty and they could entertain you or they could give you an heir of prestige and refinement that made you feel like a Rockefeller, this was skilled work they performed and when they did it well they got paid extremely well. They also were tipped well and they earned it as the level of service that was expected of them was extraordinary and they delivered that level of service but not only that they went a long way towards making your experience at that dinner or party an exceptional and memorable one. We're not talking Taco Bell here or the Olive Garden. My brother was the hospitality manager at a Ritz Carleton.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Where exactly are you getting this idea, besides from the right winged pundits? Who exactly on the left is saying that burger flippers should earn the same as a brain surgeon?

I support a wage for workers that brings them out of poverty and off food stamps. Aren't you as a tax payer tired of subsidizing business?

LR you are no gentleman if you don't concede to Rana's superior logic on this point. LOL

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I think you'd be hard pressed to quote anyone on these forums claiming that a burger flipper should be paid the same as a brain surgeon.

True....now members of congress is another story!

I have no problem paying them minimum wage as currently they produce far less than your average burger flipper does.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I guess that depends. If they make $15 an hour here in Ohio, I don't think people would tip very often. If they raise it to a regular mimimum wage, then I would think the tip amounts would decrease but not altogether dissapear. I honestly think my wife would make less in that structure. Not only that, but her hours would get cut back because they would be stingier on having the server staff come in during certain hours. They'd try to force the staff to take on more tables as well. You'd be shifting the cost from the consumer to the business.

As a consumer...what the hell is wrong with that? LOL

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Yes, it does.

If they can't afford to properly tip their servers then they should just stay home.

I disagree. I don't owe any server anything. Where is it written that I owe them something? If I go out to dinner and my server provides me a quality of service that enhances my dining experience I am very generous conversely if the lack of service is detrimental to my dining experience, why should I leave a tip? I contend that tipping is not nor should ever be an expectation but an incentive to provide a quality service and a superior experience.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Why do other countries, where people value their dining experience as much if not more than Americans, not tip?

Different customs but the same economic law of profit motive applies to them as well. Those who work in the service industry that make above average wages, in those countries, do so by providing above average service.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's not important where the idea first surfaced.

Here in America it's customary to tip your server.

Those who say they will stop tipping if the minimum wage increases are just demonstrating class envy and a selfish attitude.

It's customary in America to tip your server cause it's customary in America to reward and incentivize superior work and service.

 

[zappasguitar]

I disagree. I don't owe any server anything. Where is it written that I owe them something? If I go out to dinner and my server provides me a quality of service that enhances my dining experience I am very generous conversely if the lack of service is detrimental to my dining experience, why should I leave a tip? I contend that tipping is not nor should ever be an expectation but an incentive to provide a quality service and a superior experience.

Allow me to clarify.

If one can't afford to properly tip a waitperson who provided quality service that has enhanced their dining experience then they should stay home.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Allow me to clarify.

If one can't afford to properly tip a waitperson who provided quality service that has enhanced their dining experience then they should stay home.

Or go to some place more in line with their budget.

 

[cawacko]

Or go to some place more in line with their budget.

It's possible some people could be priced out of being able to eat out. If wages for a server go from $2.50/hr to $15/hr you know the owner of the restaurant is going to pass that increase on to the customers. If you are one that is raising a family on minimum wage or just above that small increase might make eating out unaffordable.

 

[cawacko]

As an aside anyone know why we tip bartenders for a drink but don't tip people at the coffee shop who give us a drink? Even at a game I don't tip if I buy a hot dog or nachos but I do if I buy a beer and I see others doing the same. What's that all about?

 

[DigitalDave]

As a consumer...what the hell is wrong with that? LOL

You'll still pay either way

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's possible some people could be priced out of being able to eat out. If wages for a server go from $2.50/hr to $15/hr you know the owner of the restaurant is going to pass that increase on to the customers. If you are one that is raising a family on minimum wage or just above that small increase might make eating out unaffordable.

I see that as no different than the automatic gratuity that many restaurants charge for large parties. Do you tip when a 15% gratuity has already been tacked on? I don't, unless the service was beyond extraordinary. If the Restaurant owner has to pay the employee a living wage instead of me, the customer, subsidizing their wages than obviously they will have to charge more for their food but than I would have to tip less, if at all, as there's less incentive for me to pay that tip to incentivize superior service. I will still expect a high quality of service from the Restaurant, as a matter or course, for paying a higher price for their food. However when adding total cost, that is cost of the food plus tip, it's still pretty much a wash for me, the consumer.

So either way, ultimately, the customer is going to subsidize that Restaurant employees wages. So your argument doesn't really hold weight cause the total cost for the consumer/customer would still be about the same.

The real question is this;

Should the businesses incentivize superior performance by tipping or higher wages?

That's a business decision and labor in the service industry is just like any other commodity. You get what you pay for. If you want a superior fine dining experience you are going to pay for that experience one way or the other.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

As an aside anyone know why we tip bartenders for a drink but don't tip people at the coffee shop who give us a drink? Even at a game I don't tip if I buy a hot dog or nachos but I do if I buy a beer and I see others doing the same. What's that all about?

I don't know. I tip baristas about the same rate and frequency that I do bartenders. In addition....when I'm at a bar I drink far more drinks than cups of coffee when I'm at a coffee house.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You'll still pay either way

Exactly!

As I said to Wacko....that's a business decision. If local governments are becoming militant about the minimum wage it is more than likely that what Rana said is true, that the government is having to subsidize the wages, via public relief for the employees of those businesses, because those wages are not enough to meet basic human needs of their employees.

 

[cawacko]

I see that as no different than the automatic gratuity that many restaurants charge for large parties. Do you tip when a 15% gratuity has already been tacked on? I don't, unless the service was beyond extraordinary. If the Restaurant owner has to pay the employee a living wage instead of me, the customer, subsidizing their wages than obviously they will have to charge more for their food but than I would have to tip less, if at all, as there's less incentive for me to pay that tip to incentivize superior service. I will still expect a high quality of service from the Restaurant, as a matter or course, for paying a higher price for their food. However when adding total cost, that is cost of the food plus tip, it's still pretty much a wash for me, the consumer.

So either way, ultimately, the customer is going to subsidize that Restaurant employees wages. So your argument doesn't really hold weight cause the total cost for the consumer/customer would still be about the same.

The real question is this;

Should the businesses incentivize superior performance by tipping or higher wages?

That's a business decision and labor in the service industry is just like any other commodity. You get what you pay for. If you want a superior fine dining experience you are going to pay for that experience one way or the other.

That's the whole point of this discussion. The article in the OP interviewed people who said if the servers make $15 an hour and thus the cost of the food goes up that they wouldn't tip. Zappa's argument was those people are envious and selfish if they don't tip, even with the increased wages. So I'm saying if the cost of food goes up and you are still expected to tip the same amount that those on the low end could be priced out.

 

[maineman]

I don't care if waiters make minimum wage, I will always tip... and if it is a restaurant that I really like and plan to return to often, I will tip a good waiter a lot... and then, when I come back, I ask to be seated in his section and, if he is still good, he'll get another great tip and that will continue for as long as he works there and the service and food stays top shelf.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

That's the whole point of this discussion. The article in the OP interviewed people who said if the servers make $15 an hour and thus the cost of the food goes up that they wouldn't tip. Zappa's argument was those people are envious and selfish if they don't tip, even with the increased wages. So I'm saying if the cost of food goes up and you are still expected to tip the same amount that those on the low end could be priced out.

I would disagree. If wages go up so that Restaurants pay a working wage then why would you be expected to tip? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I don't care if waiters make minimum wage, I will always tip... and if it is a restaurant that I really like and plan to return to often, I will tip a good waiter a lot... and then, when I come back, I ask to be seated in his section and, if he is still good, he'll get another great tip and that will continue for as long as he works there and the service and food stays top shelf.

That's not what the OP is saying though. They are saying that service sector jobs would be required to pay a living wage starting at $15/hour. At a restaurant, since the cost of that additional compensation would be reflected in the price you pay for your meal I see no reason why I, the customer, should be expected to subsidize their pay. I should only tip, in that situation, if I feel that the quality of service is superb and only if I feel inclined to do so. Now if they're making minimum wage and that is reflected in lower prices at the Restaurant, then I feel that I should tip for good service. Again, the server can't have their cake and eat it do, they can't expect both a higher wage and tips unless their skill level and the market determine so.

 

[leaningright]

LR you are no gentleman if you don't concede to Rana's superior logic on this point. LOL

Lol...I should know better than to use hyperbole without explanation. My point is that $15 an hour is just over 30K per year. That is a lot of money for what many view as "starter" jobs, IMO. Tip folks all you want. What they make per hour is irrevelant as to whether to tip, again, my opinion. I tip fishing guides that I've just paid $500 to take me and my family fishing for a few hours. It's just that fifteen bucks an hour seems to be a ridiculously high "minimum" wage. That is all.