Pagan Roots? 5 Surprising Facts About Christmas

Socrtease said:
If you go to a school of divinity
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First of all, I have....and I graduated.....most authorities date it around 90-100 AD.....and all copies of all four gospels are in Greek.....

wherever you find detractors of scripture you will find those intent on denying authorship......the fact remains that the church has been attributing the gospel of John to the authorship of the disciple John all the way back to the time he was still alive.....odd then that the churches that received hundreds of copies of what was written then were apparently, according to people who would not be born for over a thousand years later, fooled into thinking otherwise.....
 
Socrtease said:
If you go to a school of divinity they will date the Gospel of John at around 120 CE. Not only that but there is almost no argument that the Gospel of John was originally written in Greek which also points to a later than contemporaneous writing. I would love to see ANY proof you have that John was written before the 60's which is where to oldest version of Mark and Matthew date from. There are absolutely NO Gospels found in Aramaic which would strengthen any claim of contemporaneous writing.

The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible: Volume 3 Abingdon Press, 2008. p. 362 "Presently, few commentators would argue that a disciple of Jesus actually wrote the Fourth Gospel,..."

"Although ancient traditions attributed to the Apostle John the Fourth Gospel, the Book of Revelation, and the three Epistles of John, modern scholars believe that he wrote none of them." Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible (Palo Alto: Mayfield, 1985) p. 355

Marilyn Mellowes The Gospel of John From Jesus to Christ: A Portrait of Jesus' World. PBS 2010-11-3. "Tradition has credited John, the son of Zebedee and an apostle of Jesus, with the authorship of the fourth gospel. Most scholars dispute this notion;..."

However, there are two notable exceptions:

Blomberg, Craig (2009-08-01). "The Gospel of John". Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed.). Nashville: B & H Publishing Group. pp. 197–198. ISBN 0805444823. "All this adds up to strong circumstantial evidence for equating the beloved disciple with the apostle John."


Carson, D A (1991). "The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel". The Gospel According to John. Grand Rapids: William B Eerdmans Publishing Company. pp. 68–69. ISBN 0802836836. "[Denying Johannine Authorship] Also requires their virtual dismissal of the external evidence. This is particularly regrettable. Most scholars of antiquity, were they assessing the authorship of some other document, could not so easily set aside the evidence as plentiful, consistent and plainly tied to the sources as is the external evidence that supports Johannine authorship."

I believe you will have difficulty finding many more that agree that John was THE author.
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America's history of WWII was written within months of the cessation, but many aspects of it are completely innaccurate despite there being literally hundreds of thousands of witnesses. Anything written 60 years after the event will most likely be skewed towards a subjective agenda.
Then this dubious report is edited and then translated from one language to another. This goes on for, lets say 1600 years, when the whole lot is RE translated into 16/17 century English and four hundred years later into the garbage you call American.
We have no bother accepting the changes to other fairy stories. Was it Cinderella or Ashpottel? Did the ugly sisters cut off their toes and heels to fit the glass slipper? Who killed the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood (or Little Red Cap).
Claiming that John, James or even Jill wrote something two thousand years ago and the words they used and the understanding they had has survived is taking credibility to its most ridiculous ends.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I have provided documentation......what have you provided, besides amusement?.......
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I like amusement, don't you?
I find you both amusing and sad. For it is an unfortunate reflection on your society that someone could live as long as you have and still be so wilfully ignorant.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
First of all, I have....and I graduated.....most authorities date it around 90-100 AD.....and all copies of all four gospels are in Greek.....

wherever you find detractors of scripture you will find those intent on denying authorship......the fact remains that the church has been attributing the gospel of John to the authorship of the disciple John all the way back to the time he was still alive.....odd then that the churches that received hundreds of copies of what was written then were apparently, according to people who would not be born for over a thousand years later, fooled into thinking otherwise.....
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You would have been better off studying the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm. At least you might have a greater understanding of the evolution of story telling and the way tales are spread and altered.
How on earth can you study the non existent?
Only in America.
 
Socrtease said:
If you go to a school of divinity they will date the Gospel of John at around 120 CE. Not only that but there is almost no argument that the Gospel of John was originally written in Greek which also points to a later than contemporaneous writing. I would love to see ANY proof you have that John was written before the 60's which is where to oldest version of Mark and Matthew date from. There are absolutely NO Gospels found in Aramaic which would strengthen any claim of contemporaneous writing.

The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible: Volume 3 Abingdon Press, 2008. p. 362 "Presently, few commentators would argue that a disciple of Jesus actually wrote the Fourth Gospel,..."

"Although ancient traditions attributed to the Apostle John the Fourth Gospel, the Book of Revelation, and the three Epistles of John, modern scholars believe that he wrote none of them." Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible (Palo Alto: Mayfield, 1985) p. 355

Marilyn Mellowes The Gospel of John From Jesus to Christ: A Portrait of Jesus' World. PBS 2010-11-3. "Tradition has credited John, the son of Zebedee and an apostle of Jesus, with the authorship of the fourth gospel. Most scholars dispute this notion;..."

However, there are two notable exceptions:

Blomberg, Craig (2009-08-01). "The Gospel of John". Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed.). Nashville: B & H Publishing Group. pp. 197–198. ISBN 0805444823. "All this adds up to strong circumstantial evidence for equating the beloved disciple with the apostle John."


Carson, D A (1991). "The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel". The Gospel According to John. Grand Rapids: William B Eerdmans Publishing Company. pp. 68–69. ISBN 0802836836. "[Denying Johannine Authorship] Also requires their virtual dismissal of the external evidence. This is particularly regrettable. Most scholars of antiquity, were they assessing the authorship of some other document, could not so easily set aside the evidence as plentiful, consistent and plainly tied to the sources as is the external evidence that supports Johannine authorship."

I believe you will have difficulty finding many more that agree that John was THE author.
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Thank you for supplying this, I was going to pour through my books for references from the sholars I have read.
 
Lowaicue said:
Big fat American has gun to my head.
The point I was trying (and failing) to make that to use the internet for 'proof' or even incontovertable evidence is not the wisest thing to do. Much better to rely on things like a lifetime's education, books which have had (in the most part - depending on the author) to be researched.
Much of what is on the internet is good but it is much harder to sort the wheat from the chaff when there is so much anonymity.
I don't need the internet to tell me the sun is shining and these idiots who seem to be trying out something new by their chanting of 'cite' are just that - idiots.
I seldom use the internet to check anything which probably explains why I am often wrong. But dont tell 'them' that.
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Then do everyone a favor and convince him to pull the trigger.
 
blackascoal said:
:0)

Fly away you ignorant zithead motherfucker. :0)

"Jesus was a capitalist" is a glaring demonstration of your lack of education and plain common sense.

The unremarkable life of an uneducated bitch .. that's your life story.

:0)

This isn't a conversation assclown. This is me putting the intellectual boot up your ass.
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When did Yankee fuck your mother?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I have provided documentation......what have you provided, besides amusement?.......
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Have you read the original Cinderella, translated from mid German? No? Then you dont know what you are talking about.
You, and many others of your ilk, are simply gullible fools without the brain power to think for yourselves. Can't you get it? You are worshipping a bloody fairy story and that makes you, not just a fool but a sad fool.
Open your bloody eyes.
 
Lowaicue said:
Have you read the original Cinderella, translated from mid German? No? Then you dont know what you are talking about.
You, and many others of your ilk, are simply gullible fools without the brain power to think for yourselves. Can't you get it? You are worshipping a bloody fairy story and that makes you, not just a fool but a sad fool.
Open your bloody eyes.
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Blow it out your ass, you decrepit piece of shit.

You spend more time trying to convince people that there is no God, then people do trying to get you to believe in Him.

Seems to me that what you're really trying to do, is convince yourself; because you're scared of dying.
 
Lowaicue said:
Have you read the original Cinderella, translated from mid German? No? Then you dont know what you are talking about.
You, and many others of your ilk, are simply gullible fools without the brain power to think for yourselves. Can't you get it? You are worshipping a bloody fairy story and that makes you, not just a fool but a sad fool.
Open your bloody eyes.
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atheist evangelicals are amusing....
 
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