Pagan Roots? 5 Surprising Facts About Christmas

Don Quixote said:
the romans were good record keepers...so how do you explain that there is no roman written record of jesus' existence - part of the myth of jesus is that his 'parents' went to jerusalem to be 'taxed', at that time that was the equivalent of our census, but there is no record of his birth
how do you explain that?
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OH MY GOD!!
Obama is christ returned. "palm"
 
SuperstringTheory said:
You are making it personal claiming that these are just my assertions. I am referring to the consensus of historians. There just is not very good proof for the existence of Christ. You implied it was well documented and an accepted part of history.
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It was a historically excepted fact at one time, but with the education of more people, the scientific methods of research, the recent discoveries, there are many questions being raised and any "facts" are no longer facts.
 
leaningright said:
I'll agree with a couple things Lowaicue said:

"...if you need to say you are a christian ... you are not." (James 2:18)

"You don't get a second chance." (Hebrews 9:27)

I am a very fundamental Christian and I don't see anything wrong with what Yurt posted. But then I do not celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ. In fact, when I see those professing Christianity denying the roots of our modern day Christmas I cringe. Watch Bones (a good detective show on Fox) or Big Bang Theory ( a funny, risqué show on CBS) and in both of those programs this season and last, the main characters talked about the probability that Christ was born in the Spring months. The facts from the gospel narratives simply bear this out. The roots of the way we celebrate Christmas today are most definitely stemmed from paganism. The Winter Solstice and such and the way the heathen idol worshippers treated such and were attached to it...you can't deny it, at least if you're honest with yourself.

That said, I do put lights on my house this time of year...because I like Christmas lights. I mean, I'm not like Clark Griswald or anything but I do like lights. I even have a Christmas tree in my living room and it had gifts under it for my friends and family...because I like the tree and I like giving gifts, not because so many years ago trees meant something to some idol worshippers or because it's some sort of Freudian phallic symbol. I give em at Christmas time, for birthdays, and even for no reason throughout the year. The biggest thing for me is the time off from work that I get to spend with my family. My dad who turns 81 in February and my sister, brother-in-law and a single brother were here with us today. We ate, visited, watched Miracle on 34th Street and then some of us went out and had a good snowball fight. Fun stuff.
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Belated Merry Chistmas and Blessed New Year
 
Lowaicue said:
Started off this morning with a full English breakfast (I think we'll have that next year instead of the boring old turkey) followed by two chocolate truffles and, because it is nearly 11 am, I have just poured a wee snifter to see me through til lunch. This arvo our neighbours are holding a big barbie, it is unlikely that my general bonhommie will last that long so I'll probably stay at home and play with my new Samsung pad thingy or read my new C Hitchens book of essays.
My main prob is that I have a half bot of Graves from yesterday's lunch and a half bot of a nice red from a friend's chateau and the bottle of Tawny port is looking tempting. On top of that I have a six pack of Tsing Tao in the fridge which really must go before the weekend. We also have an invite to a local rooftop bar for this evening. (I think we'll do that instead of the barbie) And I am not a drinker!
More chocolates please.
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Sounds lovely, enjoy.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Once again I find it amazing that those who have decided to not believe in God, spend so much time attempting to denigrate the belief of those that do believe in God.

I don't believe in Venutons; but it doesn't bother me if others choose to.

If I choose to believe and I discover that I was wrong, then I just wasted my time.
BUT
If you choose to not believe and then find out you're wrong; well then, you're wasted. :D
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What is a Venuton?
 
Damocles said:
That's possible, but unlikely. It is extremely unlikely that Tacitus would have written about Jesus' execution, nor that a burgeoning new religion would have such an impact had he not existed. All Rome would have had to do to end the religion is simply point out that Jesus was fictional, which never happened. The people who executed him and hated the new religion never once denied his existence, they only denied his divinity.
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So, because you believe that Rome didn't point out Jesus was fictional that makes him a real person?

I would tend to think Rome didn't believe he was real because there was no history of him, other than the teachings of his followers.

The fact that Tacitus didn't write of Jesus' cruxifiction is amazing if you read the Biblical accounts of his death, there were earthquakes and eclipses and the walking dead! You would have think there would be more than just the gospel accounts on such occurrences.
 
Socrtease said:
In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (now a secular agnostic who was formerly Evangelical) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285
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If you stop to think about it, critical study of scriptures is in its infancy. The Church did not allow it and people were still eing miles for it in the late 1800's. Recent discoveries are changing theories. The theory Jesus didn't exist is still in the minority, but it is ginning ground.
 
blackascoal said:
Constantine dreamed it up.

It's called 'history.'
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There were so any concepts of Chistianity, from Jesus was god/man to Jesus was not flesh. The different sects actually plotted and warred and killed each other off, the results were the winners coming together and hammering out what their beliefs would be.

Christias believe ther teachings were a direct line from Jesus, to the Apstles tothe Gospels and that just so simplistic. It was four centuries in the making ad has been changing ever since.

Christianity was Paul's invention and it want even the one adopted at Nicea.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry to disagree with you, but the majority of authorities agree that the gospel of John was written by John as well as agreeing that the gospels ARE supporting documents written by men contemporaneous with Christ.......a handful of atheist detractors notwithstanding.....
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Nope, you education is about 30 years behind.
 
Damocles said:
Here you say "the real Jesus", as if you believe that an historical figure, around which a religion was formed, existed. Which was my point.
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That has been my point all along good brother.

I have always qualified my comments with the 'biblical' Jesus .. which is a fairy-tale. There is NOTHING unique about the fairy-tale/fable of Jesus. It's just a composite of religious fairy-tales and fables that came long before Christianity.

I'll say again .. people are free to believe whatever they wish to believe .. but when they try to force that belief onto others, and/or attempt to re-write history to support a belief with no such history, then it becomes a problem.

My wife is Christian. I attend a baptist church with her. I attend because this church is active in the community, has built senior housing and a community center with a gymnasium, computer room, mentoring center, and study hall. The pastor there knows that I'm not Christian .. but he also knows that when something is needed for the kids or the elderly, he can count on me to help out.

Like the real Jesus, I'm a socialist.
 
blackascoal said:
...
Like the real Jesus, I'm a socialist.
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Huge FAIL. Jesus is a capitalist:

“Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

“After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

“The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

“‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(NIV, Matthew 25:14-30)
 
DamnYankee said:
Huge FAIL. Jesus is a capitalist:

“Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

“After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

“The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

“Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

“‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(NIV, Matthew 25:14-30)
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Critical thinking isn't your forte' .. is it? :0)

jesus-300x225.jpg

Your arguments are always among the stupidest ever posted by a subhuman.
 
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