Outrage as Russian overnight attacks on Ukraine cities kill at least nine civilians

Scott said:
Yes, I've never seen any hard evidence that Russia's military ever tried to hurt civilians. From what I've seen, the same can't be said for the Ukrainian military.
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"From what I have seen"?

The Ukrainians have been shelling Russian civilians since 2014......they also seek to kill first responders which is a war crime.
 
Alexander of The Duran reminded me just now that the Russians also went after Ukrainian rail, something that they have generally till now refrained from on humanitarian grounds.

Russia finding that there is still no one to negotiate with is escalating.
 
That the Imperial Empire conducts the war crime of killing first responders in both Ukraine and Gaza is not a coincidence.
 
"Kellogg frankly knew nothing about the place, the people, the area, or the war"

COL. Douglas Macgregor : Will Netanyahu Attack Iran?​

 
Hawkeye10 said:
Scott said:
I agree about this being settled on the battlefield for the forseeable future. The only wrinkle I'd add is that if NATO, or even just the U.S., were to go ballistic and make this a nuclear war, I think that -everyone- could lose, but I don't see Ukraine winning either way. I also think that it'd be better not just for Ukraine but for everyone if they just lost the war with Russia without nukes getting involved.
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Hope that Trump will prevent this from going nuclear is fading fast as he continues to fail to track with reality...pushing the idiotic Kellogg plan being the latest iteration.

He needed to take America out of this war when he came into office, instead he decided to play pretend peacemaker.
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I still have hope that Trump will at least keep the U.S. out of a nuclear war with Russia. The fact that he even brought up the prospect of world war III in the famous verbal brown with Zelensky is a hopeful sign in my view. It's been said that he's now dithering on Ukraine. I'm fine with him dithering, let him dither all he wants, just no escalations.
 
"I dont think anything is going to change until we see the financial crisis develop and the economy implode, which I think is not far off now"
MacGregor
 
Trump is trying to get us out of Ukraine without admitting that this is all our fault, and that we lost.

It was never going to work.
 
MacGregor says that there are 50 million illegals....one of the bigger numbers I have heard.....very likely in the right ballpark.

The betrayal has been massive.
 
anonymoose said:
No doubt the U.S. supported the Maidan Revolution (which was irresponsible), but they couldn't have caused it. Some Ukranian people caused it.
That's pretty much irrelevant now. We must deal w/ the present and move forward.
Here's my take: Ukraine was a dysfunctional state in 2014 and Russia got Crimea. Uk did nothing about it until the 2022 invasion. Too late and there's little they can do now. Trump is right, Z must finally cede Crimea.
Cede existing areas where Russia has control of the Donbass, nothing more.
Z. will not like this.
Security guarantees for what's left of Uk. and once they get their politics in order allow them to join the EU.
Putin will not like this.
But that's what happens in a negotiated settlement, neither side gets all of what they what.
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Crimea was always Russian- ( remember the Crimean War, from one or two of the days when you attended school ? ) It was given to Ukraine, illegally , in 1951. The Crimeans are Russians, as are half of the Ukrainians.
 
moon said:
Crimea was always Russian- ( remember the Crimean War, from one or two of the days when you attended school ? ) It was given to Ukraine, illegally , in 1951. The Crimeans are Russians, as are half of the Ukrainians.
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Just heard this explained today....the Dnieper was long the edge of Europe....the West never crossed it......Kiev was the Easternmost outpost.

99% confidence it was here.

Alex Krainer: Hope or Hype? The Search for Peace in Ukraine and Israel​

 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Trump is trying to get us out of Ukraine without admitting that this is all our fault, and that we lost.

It was never going to work.
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It was Biden that destroyed the blossoming EU/Russian relationship- out of Russophobic fear, of course. Sabotaging the Nord Stream pipelines condemned Europe to fuel-poverty. The dumbass Europeans still backed the US.
 
moon said:
It was Biden that destroyed the blossoming EU/Russian relationship- out of Russophobic fear, of course. Sabotaging the Nord Stream pipelines condemned Europe to fuel-poverty. The dumbass Europeans still backed the US.
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Europe signed up (after extensive brainwashing and money transfers from Washington) as vassals of America, and destroyed themselves on command.

Fuck Em.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Trump is trying to get us out of Ukraine without admitting that this is all our fault, and that we lost.
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Was it really "our" fault though? I certainly didn't make the decision to use Ukraine as a proxy in a war with Russia. And did "we" really lose? I think that, far from it, we -win- by showing up those who got us into this mess.
 
moon said:
anonymoose said:
No doubt the U.S. supported the Maidan Revolution (which was irresponsible), but they couldn't have caused it. Some Ukranian people caused it.
That's pretty much irrelevant now. We must deal w/ the present and move forward.
Here's my take: Ukraine was a dysfunctional state in 2014 and Russia got Crimea. Uk did nothing about it until the 2022 invasion. Too late and there's little they can do now. Trump is right, Z must finally cede Crimea.
Cede existing areas where Russia has control of the Donbass, nothing more.
Z. will not like this.
Security guarantees for what's left of Uk. and once they get their politics in order allow them to join the EU.
Putin will not like this.
But that's what happens in a negotiated settlement, neither side gets all of what they what.
Click to expand...
Crimea was always Russian- ( remember the Crimean War, from one or two of the days when you attended school ? ) It was given to Ukraine, illegally , in 1951. The Crimeans are Russians, as are half of the Ukrainians.
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To be fair, it was the USSR that transferred Crimean from the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian one, but yes, I know that Russia is now saying that it was done illegally. It certainly wasn't done with the consent of the Crimean people.
 
Who would have ever thought that lobbying for Putin’s interests would be the full time job of a United States president?
 
moon said:
It was Biden that destroyed the blossoming EU/Russian relationship- out of Russophobic fear, of course. Sabotaging the Nord Stream pipelines condemned Europe to fuel-poverty. The dumbass Europeans still backed the US.
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Yep. As Jeffrey Sachs told European Parliament not too long ago:
**
I begged the Ukrainians: stay neutral. Don’t listen to the Americans. I repeated to them the famous adage of Henry Kissinger, that to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal. Let me repeat that for Europe: To be an enemy of the United States is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal.
**
Source:
consortiumnews.com

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’
consortiumnews.com consortiumnews.com
 
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