So then you agree with me that people should have the right to bare nuclear arms then? I mean really.
Our Gun Rights
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
So then you agree with me that people should have the right to bare nuclear arms then? I mean really.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
the lie is that the government is responsible for our constitution and rights, that it was gov employees that wrote it. Flat out lie. Read Socs post for reality
No.
The Constitution is a charter of conferred powers. Powers "We the People" granted in limited, specific form.
The powers over the weapons of warfare are folded into the powers granted (surrendered) to government to raise and support the military forces of the nation.
Those powers that the people did not confer were retained by the people.
The people surrendered no power to government over the personal arms of the private citizen thus that is deemed a right (an exception of power not granted).
The people have no claim as a right to those things they surrendered to government
Government has no claim of power over those things never surrendered by the people.
A simple principle that hopefully will relieve your confusion.
Christ on a Pink Unicorn are you serious?
There were two competing political philosophies at the time.
1. The King possessed a divine right to rule however he wished. His power was unquestionable.
2. Humans possess reason and have the inherent right to choose the mechanism of government and to define its powers.
So, which one are you arguing for?
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
I believe it's a non-issue. Like my right to own a dinosaur. Show me where someone might buy one, and I'll consider it an issue. Until then, try to stick to things that actually matter.
I think some people have no clue as to what 'the enlightenment' was and how influential it was during that time...a true testament to how some still haven't been enlightened.So we're still back to people deciding on what the Creator wanted.
Yes, that point is missing as there is no evidence any Creator stated anything like the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. Was it received like the 10 Commandments? Was there a proverbial Mount Sinai?
As you stated, "We, the people" not "the Creator said". People, human beings, decided on what rights to uphold.
Talk about idiocy. How more plain can I put it? Unless the Founding Fathers had a conversation with the "Creator" there were no "Creator rights". In fact, the Founding Fathers made it quite clear with the "We hold these rights to be self-evident" statement. Do you know what those words mean? If the rights were dictated/designed by a "Creator" there would be no need to write, "We hold these rights to be self-evident."
On that note it's siesta time.
apple0154
MEOW
In msg 33, Socrates wrote, “They were members to the convention selected by the citizens of their states to go and craft a document that was better than the Articles of Confederation. They were not paid to be there. They basically volunteered their time to put the document together. Secondly, they did not "create" the rights in the Bill of Rights. Instead, they said that those rights existed before the foundation of governments."
I wrote in msg #15, "It was a bunch of government employees/workers/operatives who crafted the Constitution. It was government who gave you the very things you profess to be the pinnacle of mankind's evolution."
OK. Let's drag out the thesaurus. Would it be better if I said flag-waver, good citizen, jingoist, loyalist, nationalist, partisan, patrioteer, statesperson, ultranationalist, abettor, accessory, accomplice, adherent, adjunct, aide, ally, appointee, apprentice, attendant, backer, backup*, coadjutant, coadjutor, collaborator, colleague, companion, deputy, fellow worker, follower, friend, gal Friday, girl Friday, gofer, help, helpmate, henchman, man Friday, paraprofessional, partner, right-hand man/woman, right-hand person, secretary, servant, subordinate, supporter, temp, temporary worker ?
The point is they represented the people and they were given the task to come up with a governing plan.
As for them not "creating" the Bill of Rights and saying those rights existed before the foundation of governments my only reply is, "So what?" While a great idea it proves absolutely nothing. Where was it written/declared/acknowledged prior to them saying so? What proof did they have those rights ever existed?
Many of the drafters/letter writers became part of the official government, be it President or some other official and the others were "consultants" so, as I said, for all intents and purposes they were the government. They were writing the rules. Call it what you will.
The Magna Carta. http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/magna_carta/
cancel2 2022
Canceled
Apple, I admire your fortitude but you are trying to strip away centuries of bullshit. You have only to look to the romanticisation of the Wild West to see what you are up against!!
Yet they took it among themselves to establish a big government in order to lessen the power of the States. Go figure...
Thirty-Five of them were lawyers. And the majority were slave-holders.
No, they weren't. They were unprepared to foresee what the nation would be like today, had no benefit of the past to rely on, and failed miserably with their first attempt at setting up a government, the Articles of Confederation. Mainly because the majority of the lawmaking authority laid with the states.
And you guys want to go back to that????
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
That's like saying, because I choose to drink a martini, I will get my BAC over 1.0 on martinis. Choosing to increase centralization to a more manageable form, while still giving the states great autonomy, does not mean that they envisioned or wanted a giant all encompassing government.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
they were NOT the government, they were not assigned to the government. There was no way that they could have been the government because the federal government did not exist at that time.
I call it the constitutional convention. they were not the government because the government didn't exist.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
take your british bullshit back to your side of the pond.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
you're a daft moron. they did NOT establish a big government, they established a limited government, as evidenced by the two dozen mentions of things that the federal government do not have the power to touch.
awesome. I was waiting for you fucktards to start denigrating the founding fathers. the bastards should have just let the british take their guns and surrendered for us, eh?
Canceled.2014.1
New member
Ok, rather than start a new thread, I will ask my question here.
Several of our members have repeatedly made disparaging remakrs about arsenals and stockpiled ammo.
How many guns would you allow us to own? And how many rounds of ammo per gun?
Several of our members have repeatedly made disparaging remakrs about arsenals and stockpiled ammo.
How many guns would you allow us to own? And how many rounds of ammo per gun?
SmarterthanYou
rebel
the circular illogic of anti gunners is truly mesmerizing.
they 'support' the second amendment for hunters and target shooters, but display any tendency of violence and you should be psych eval'd and locked up for life with no access to guns, which are only made to kill people violently.
they 'support' the second amendment for hunters and target shooters, but display any tendency of violence and you should be psych eval'd and locked up for life with no access to guns, which are only made to kill people violently.
That's not up to us. It will be up to Congress.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
LOL, that will never happen.
Where is anyone saying there should be restrictions on the number of weapons/ammo? The only restrictions suggested were made regarding mentally unstable people.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
The 2nd Amendment says nothing about a limit on the number of guns or rounds of ammunition you can have.
Why do you all have so much trouble reading the 2nd Amendment?