OPINION:Waterboarding is Not Unconstitutional

From the treaty:
Article 1


  1. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
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AND, from the same treaty....
Article 2


  1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
  2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
  3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
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St. Adolphus said:
Perhaps you are unable to read, because if you were so able, you'd have read the treaty that I've posted multiple times now. That we signed. That states we will not torture anyone.
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From your treaty:

For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

1. Waterboarding does not involve severe pain or suffering. It is merely uncomfortable, inconvenient and unpleasant.
2. The purpose of waterboarding is NOT to obtain a confession or as punishment.
3. Waterboarding was not conducted as a result of discrimination.

Now, you can disagree with this all you like, from my perspective, waterboarding simply doesn't meet the criteria set forth in the treaty you posted.
 
Dixie said:
From your treaty:

For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

1. Waterboarding does not involve severe pain or suffering. It is merely uncomfortable, inconvenient and unpleasant.
2. The purpose of waterboarding is NOT to obtain a confession or as punishment.
3. Waterboarding was not conducted as a result of discrimination.

Now, you can disagree with this all you like, from my perspective, waterboarding simply doesn't meet the criteria set forth in the treaty you posted.
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Bolded a very obvious part that you ignored. Whether it's done in discrimination is irrelevant, as it's still illegal for us to do. And the current U.N, commission says waterboarding is torture.
 
Dixie said:
And the part after the comma is what YOU ignored!

...punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed...
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Pre-comma shows a separate idea, doing it for information (or "intelligence gathering") is against the Treaty. And the Treaty makes no bones about combatants at all, in fact it specifically states that it means "any person". The government must stand up and support the Treaty, it was ratified and is therefore the Law of the Land.
 
Dixie said:
And the part after the comma is what YOU ignored!

...punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed...
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Uhh no, didn't ignore it. The treaty states that we cannot use torture to extract information, or to punish people. They're separate things.
 
Damocles said:
Pre-comma shows a separate idea, doing it for information (or "intelligence gathering") is against the Treaty. And the Treaty makes no bones about combatants at all, in fact it specifically states that it means "any person". The government must stand up and support the Treaty, it was ratified and is therefore the Law of the Land.
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I agree... TORTURING for information is against the treaty. We've still not established that waterboarding (as conducted by the CIA) was torture.
 
St. Adolphus said:
Uhh no, didn't ignore it. The treaty states that we cannot use torture to extract information, or to punish people. They're separate things.
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To extract information regarding a confession... that's how it reads to me. Still, you have not established waterboarding is torture! That is YOUR OPINION... and it's great and wonderful you have one, but again, we don't determine what is or isn't torture based on individual opinion.
 
Dixie said:
To extract information regarding a confession... that's how it reads to me. Still, you have not established waterboarding is torture! That is YOUR OPINION... and it's great and wonderful you have one, but again, we don't determine what is or isn't torture based on individual opinion.
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Then you need basic reading as well as basic math lessons.
 
Dixie said:
No, police are not the CIA conducting national security intelligence gathering operations. But thanks for playing!
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Why not though? If it's not torture, it shouldn't be a big deal. Hell, it would save police a lot of trouble. Just strap down that motherfucker, dump a little water on his face, and we're good to go!
 
Dixie said:
I agree... TORTURING for information is against the treaty. We've still not established that waterboarding (as conducted by the CIA) was torture.
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I still don't see how anyone can classify it as "not torture." It's putting someone in a state of extreme psychological distress in order to extract information. There seems to be a feeling among proponents of waterboarding that torture is only torture if it causes physical damage, but that ignores how torture has been used over the course of thousands of years of history.

"Enhanced interrogation" is just absurd. It's like saying a punch to the face is an enhanced hand gesture...
 
Onceler said:
I still don't see how anyone can classify it as "not torture." It's putting someone in a state of extreme psychological distress in order to extract information. There seems to be a feeling among proponents of waterboarding that torture is only torture if it causes physical damage, but that ignores how torture has been used over the course of thousands of years of history.

"Enhanced interrogation" is just absurd. It's like saying a punch to the face is an enhanced hand gesture...
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The U.N. treaty that we signed says torture can be mental as well as physical.
 
St. Augustine said:
Why not though? If it's not torture, it shouldn't be a big deal. Hell, it would save police a lot of trouble. Just strap down that motherfucker, dump a little water on his face, and we're good to go!
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There are a lot of things that aren't torture which the police are not allowed to do and the CIA is allowed to do. There are also things the police can do that the CIA can't. Do you need a lesson in Government or something? Stop acting like a retard!
 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00002340----000-.html

Definitions:

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from— (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
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Waterboarding doesn't fit the criteria of "torture" under US Code.
 
Dixie said:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00002340----000-.html

Definitions:

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control; (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from— (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
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Waterboarding doesn't fit the criteria of "torture" under US Code.
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I beg to differ.
 
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