christiefan915
Catalyst
Thanks, you've just given me a reason to change my sig.
OPINION:Waterboarding is Not Unconstitutional
- Thread starter Canceled2
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Thanks, you've just given me a reason to change my sig.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Christie it's a shame you are so ignorant you don't understand what was said. I'm glad you have that in your sig though, it illustrates what a complete dumbass you are... not that people wouldn't know it by talking to ya, but this way they can confirm you really are a dumb ass, before investing any time in trying to have an intelligent conversation. I think you did everyone a great service....thanks!
Rationalist
Hail Voltaire
The United States has at its disposal the most advanced information-gathering personnel and technology in the world; we are beyond capable of obtaining the information we need without resorting to barbarism.
Unutterably foolish. People are incarcerated for violating the rights of others. It's utter nonsense to say "nobody could ever be incarcerated"... One of the rights listed is against "cruel and unusual" punishment, clearly your premise is false. No such right would be necessary if none could be incarcerated.
If you aren't abiding by the Constitution it does not delete your rights, nor should it the rights of others.
Nice speech~ When you are looking at the eminent threat of mass murder by barbarians, you use enhanced interrogation-we now know it works.
Truth. And what we cannot, we can live with in order to stand resolute wrapping action around our words. We preach an action to others, yet do not expect to be held to that standard. I don't give a dang who it is, we do not need to resort to this. You will know us by the rights we believe you have, and no longer by the rights we will ignore when they get in the way of safety.
Resort to what Damo? A medically supervised enhanced interrogation of a mass murderer intent to inflict more of same? Or resort to invading a sovereign nation and shooting a terrorist in the head? I submit in the early years post 9/11 the CIA did exactly the right thing with KSM-they did get actionable intelligence from him-yippee skippee!
Shoot them in the head. It is war. Do not apply what we happily convicted members of our military for in past wars as torture. Having Herr Doktor stand nearby didn't make a ton of what was done in past wars that we find abhorrent "good". Again, we either practice what we preach or what we preach isn't worth it. I believe it is worth it.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
It's NOT utter nonsense, it is the argument you made, Damo! You want to take the words of the DoI literally to mean, under NO circumstance can our rights ever be alienated, that would include those who break the law or violate the rights of others as well. I didn't make that boneheaded argument, YOU did, I merely pointed out how boneheaded it was. Now you admit it's utter nonsense.... glad you realize how utterly nonsensical you were!
The part of the DoI which states our rights are inalienable, mentions life, liberty and pursuit of happiness... well, you have no "liberty" if you are sitting in a jail cell, do you? If you are sent to the electric chair, that pretty much alienates your right to life, doesn't it? And how are you free to pursue happiness in prison? Seems to me, when a judge sentences you to do time, they pretty much alienate your rights, do they not? That's odd, since you maintain your rights can't be alienated (i.e.; inalienable rights).
See, what happened here, is you hopped up on your Libertarian high horse and paraded around trying to sound like a patriot, and you got thumped off! Now you want to twist what you said and pretend it is ME who has been absurd... it was YOUR argument, Damo, not mine. The terrorists we are discussing here, are NOT American citizens, do NOT subscribe to the Constitution, and in fact, are sworn to destroy the entity which stands for those "inalienable rights" you are so fond of... but for some reason, in your fucked up head, you THINK they are entitled to rights they simply DON'T have!
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
It also says all treaties we sign shall be held as equal to the Constitution. And we signed a treaty barring the use of torture.
Enhanced interrogations?...It is war. What was done as water torture during WWII WAS NOT what was done to KSM...it just simply was not. 14 second to 2 minute intervals with a physician standing by while water is poured onto a mans face is not equal to pouring water down someones throat into their nose and jumping onto their stomachs-without benefit of any kind of care with regards to long term or permanent injury or even death!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And it is your OPINION that the enhanced interrogation of the three individuals in question, was in fact, torture. We've been over this already, because it is your opinion, doesn't make something a fact... it can't. If that were how facts were determined, then ANY interrogation could be opined as torture. Just the act of detaining someone to interrogate them, could be viewed by some to be torturous. Therefore, we can't determine what is torture by individual opinions.
charver
You lookin' at my pint?
Er...most civilised nations use the definition of torture given in the UN Convention Against Torture.
Which is this -
"Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1
Again, most people would regard "enhanced interrogation" (a lovely phrase akin to describing rape as 'a little rough and tumble') as meeting that definition. So when conventions such as this are ratified by individual nations, they usually agree to be bound by those definitions.
But what use would anyone have for the rule of law, eh? We're fighting terrorists, you know. Fighting to protect our way of life from those who would seek to destroy it and wipe away our precious freedoms. They'd probably instigate all manner of evils, such as torture, but craftily call it something else more palatable to the masses. Thems terrorists are so very, very evil.
Now, i must be going as George Orwell has unexpectedly spun out of his grave and is knocking people over in the High Street like ninepins.
"Enhanced interrogation" is as bad a phrase as "collateral damage." The intent is clear - hide what it really is, because when described correctly, it's much, much worse.
I don't care what anyone says. Waterboarding is not what America is about. We don't have different standards of human rights for different groups of people.
I don't care what anyone says. Waterboarding is not what America is about. We don't have different standards of human rights for different groups of people.
Sure, I explain it to you, apparently some one needs to.
That post which you wrote is so retarded that you just made every living adult on the planet stupider.
Understand?
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
It's also the opinion of the U.N., the guys who wrote the treaty we signed.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, it's your INTERPRETATION that it's their opinion. I disagree, and I don't think the enhanced interrogations fit the criteria of torture, as described by Article 1.1 of the Geneva Convention. Also, it should be noted, the GC applies to signatories to the GC, and alQaeda is not a signatory, therefore, it is unenforceable.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Nope, and you haven't explained it. And I doubt anything I could post would ever make YOU stupider, because you are already as stupid as it gets.
I have to go pick up my son at the hospital right now, but when I get back in a few hours, I will try to help you understand again. Meanwhile, stay seated and don't make any important decisions.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
Were I talking about the GC, you might be making a point (actually, no you wouldn't it'd still apply). But I'm not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture
There is a copy of the treaty available if you'd like, as that's what I and Charver have been quoting.