Only in Alabama!
- Thread starter Port Tack
- Start date
Port Tack
Verified User
That is the killing of an unborn child that the mother wants. Abortions are performed all the time in CA and when that is the wishes of the mother it is not considered murder.
TOP
Retired Teacher
No... apparently you're not familiar with why this law was created ..
Port Tack
Verified User
That says "without intent" meaning if the mother intends to terminate the pregnancy by way of abortion, it isn't murder. CA probably has more abortions performed than any other state, how many of the women having one have been charged with murder. I think your use of the enlarged font just makes you that much bigger of an ignorant asshole.
TOP
Retired Teacher
If that was the agreement between the clinic or the hospital and the parents then that would be acceptable... But it's necessary to protect embryos that are just carelessly handled...many lawsuitsfoe those that do and rightfully so... the Alabama Law wouldn't have been necessary if the clinic hadn't screwed up and the lower court recognized the importance and seriousness of what had happened...
TOP
Retired Teacher
If a mother miscarries does she lose a child? If a woman is stabbed to death and she is pregnant is that two murders? An abortion ends the life of a child though it may not meet the definition of murder it is intentional termination...
Port Tack
Verified User
That is the key to the entire abortion debate and why RvW was initially passed. You can question the rights of the unborn but there is NO questioning the rights of the woman. She is a living breathing human that definately without question has rights, you can't take those rights away in favor of something that clearly is NOT yet a living breathing human being. The womans rights clearly precede the rights of the unborn.
Port Tack
Verified User
Rightwingers continuely defy common sense, it's why their numbers are dwindling.
TOP
Retired Teacher
I guess you shouldn't go to Alabama then toget IVF if you believe that..... it's not going to be an issue though... so much political drama
TOP
Retired Teacher
Why no compassion for the family who lost their embryos because of carelessness?
QP!
Verified User
I never said "automatically" nor "haphazardly" so those are just two more of your string of lies.
What happens is the clinic consults with the family who owns them, and if that family no longer has use for them they agree they will be disposed of, by whatever procedure the clinic uses to do that.
Cost and storage space is the problem.
Again, if the parents want to keep them as them may try to use them later, then they are happy paying that storage and freezing cost. If those parents are done however, and have all the kids they now want, they will NOT want to pay for indefinite storage and freezing for something that will never be used.
And if those parents refuse to pay for the continued storage that then puts the Hospital or Clinic in a bind. They must continue to store them as they simply cannot destroy a 'child' because the parents won't pay.
Asa always you inject abject stupidity into this, in a way that makes Marjorie Greene say 'wow that was dumb'. Congrats.
No, Clinics would not simple "absorb the cost" of storing the unused extra embryos of each and every woman they treat. That would be a growing substantial cost over time. They would be forced to pass that cost on to everyone who has the procedure when this procedure is already very expensive for most in the MC and below who use it to have a family. It would almost certainly stop some people from doing it and having kids.
And you have not even addressed the other key question. What is the PURPOSE of storing frozen embryos FOREVER if the parents do not want them? Is that not cruel, if you are a christian? Never allowing those 'children' to die and thus keeping them from heaven for as long as there is electricity to keep them frozen.
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Well, at least literate, logical, and educated Reichwingers. Toxic is not among them. She's been a forced-birther for all the 14 years I've had her following me around from forum to forum. Whenever she gets particularly distraught, I soothe her with a donation to Planned Parenthood in her name. Over the years she has helped a lot of women this way. She helped several more yesterday!
ThatOwlWoman
Not Nice
Isn't it great?! The Democrats are going to make gold out of straw with this fiasco. Someone will appeal it to SCOTUS, but it won't be ruled upon before November. It will be wonderful for America to have both a (D) POTUS *and* solid majorities in both chambers. Finally we will get the work for the people done. USA! USA!
TOP
Retired Teacher
They don't have to store them forever this is all discussed when people decide to have IVF treatment... it's not going to be a problem... there was a problem in Alabama because the clinic did not properly care for the precious embryos... and the lower courts refuse to acknowledge that this was indeed a loss...
QP!
Verified User
TOP is the exemplar of my signature. She makes Marjorie Greene look smart. Like Greene, TOP has to speak out as an authority on every topic when she knows nothing and worse is stupid and thus cannot even assume reasonable things.
So in this example TOP instantly proclaimed this IVF ban won't change anything or cause any stress issues to the clinics and hospitals and then once educated about how stupid her position was she tries to switch to 'ok, well i am sure they can just pay all the extra storage costs'.
The FACTS are for many families in the MC or below, who cannot have kids IVF is enormously expensive and something they have to save for or borrow money to do, and it is also a big risk, as there are no guarantees, and often times many attempts are needed, compounding the costs.
But these parents are so desperate to have a child they are willing to risk it. Something you would think pro lifers would support.
And now instead the pro lifers say, if you do this you now also need to enter into a lifetime storage payment deal with clinic as they can NEVER dispose of the unused embryos and most keep them in cold storage forever. The clinic or Hospital would have to factor in costs for FOREVER storage, even after the parents death because at no point, in Alabama could they simply choose to 'kill the children (embryo's)' over a matter of cost.
And that then leads to the next thing Alabama must address legally. If you accept the embryo is a child, can you allow a child to be frozen FOREVER? Is that not cruel as opposed to having it born or allowing it to die to join God?
So it follows that a NECESSARY Part B to this ruling will be that if a Clinic or Hospital does IVF they must ENSURE every embryo is implanted within a certain length of time, or they are liable as that CHILD cannot be kept frozen forever. And with that IVF is done, which is where these 'pro-lifers' want to end up.