Actually all kinds of things which used to be manufactured here are now made in foreign countries all over the world.
Only 25 percent of Americans are qualified???
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
Actually all kinds of things which used to be manufactured here are now made in foreign countries all over the world.
How many of them simply couldn't compete against foreign wages and enviromental standards?
Bullshit.
Cancel 2016.11
Darla
I think there are a confluence of factors. Outsourcing is definitely a big one. So is technological advancements though. And the quest for cheap labor, which is discussed in the NY Times piece. But I am not an expert, that is just my opinion.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. We have 1/4 the number of steel plants that we had during WWII. Together they produce substantially more steel output than 4 times the numbers of plants did in the 1940's and they didn't even have those environmental regulaitons back then. Care to explain why they're producing more steel today with fewer plants and stricter safety and environmental laws than they were back in the 40's dumbass?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I think both have had an impact though I agree with you that automation and technology have had a bigger impact than outsourcing.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I don't think your charts address the issue of skilled workers. It's essentially validating what I Billy and I have stated that technology has impacted labor more than outsourcing has as shown by the increased productivity in manufacturing but the lower numbers of people working in manufacturing. There is some truth to what Darla is saying in that many employers are bing dishonest when they say there's not enough skilled workers when the truth is there are not enough skilled workers who will work for substandard wages because skilled technological labor, is a highly sought after and competitive market.I'm not saying that's not true for your area, but it's not true nationwide. Look at the chart I posted again but pay attention only to the red line. It's simply implausible that we had enough skilled workers in 2007 but suddenly don't anymore and it just so happens to coincide with the recession.
Also, too, here's the job openings rate for manufacturing since mid-2000:
It's up, but it isn't way high as you would expect if there was a big structural employment problem.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Don'tknow but having spent over 15 years in an industrial environment I can tell you that's a bogus argument. An old obsolete plant with 50 year old equipment can't compete against the race to the bottom but that's what that literally is. At the upper end Foreign third world competitors can't compete with our developled infrastructure and our new and more advanced technologies nor can they compete with the superior skill and productivity of our workers.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Oh no....I'm only arguing for the displacement of unskilled labor has been more greatly impacted by technology than it has been by outsourcing.
But skilled labor is a highly sought after commodity and I agree with you that those who are bitching that they can't find enough qualified people are companies that can't compete in the skilled labor market and so want to rig the market to artificially depresses wages instead of lettin the market do its thing.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I'm sorry you think that but those are the facts. Look at the chart Dung posted. It tells the story right there. It shows that our industrial productiving has nearly tripled in 40 years while at the same time the numbers of people employed in manufacturing has decreased by nearly 50% in that same time. How would you explain that fact? If your assertion was true that graph would look nothing like that.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
Care to elaborate on your disagreement?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You are right they are all factors. There is a quest by employers for cheap labor but labor is like any other commodity, the law of supply and demand applies and if there's great demand for skilled labor but low demand for unskilled labor.....well you see my point. No I'm not claiming that in the US outsourcing hasn't had an impact, I'm just saying that the impact has been exagerated compared the impact technology has had. Dungs chart proves that.
When was the last time you saw the union label on a shirt for sale at Sears Mott? Of course outsourcing has had an impact.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I didn't say that it hadn't. I'm just saying that its impact is exagerated compared to the impact technology has had.
The key to America's prosperity isn't building more factories to employ more unskilled laborers manufacturing low value items. The future is in education.
cawacko
Well-known member
You've been pretty spot on with all of this Mott. The fact of the matter is America is (and has been) moving towards more of a service economy. As you referenced that will entail the need for higher levels of education. The old days of getting a high school diploma and then living a middle class life working in a factory are pretty much gone. The technological revolution helped put an end to it.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
Would you really want to pay $70 for a t-shirt?
Steelplate
New member
But Mott...what good is education when young people are saddled with huge amounts of debt before they start their lives and jobs so mercurial in availability. What you major in today may be saturated by the time you graduate....then you either go to work for cheap or go back to school...incurring more debt.
How about making education free and then people can retrain regardless of their situation?
Steelplate
New member
When has a tshirt ever cost $70? Hyperbole much?
How about we tone down profits a little, bring CEO pay back to a reasonable level, and pay the workforce enough that they don't need government assistance to survive?