one step closer to unlicensed concealed carry

STY...i think you should stop, i don't know how much more of the mental beat down evince can take...:)

my lawd....she says you're not the final arbitor, yet of course her opinions are correct :palm:
 
Listen, the documents do not say what you have convinced yourself they say.

Its not my fault you completely ignore the part where they say WELL REGULATED .,

dumbass, i'm not ignoring 'well regulated', you're simply defining it in a way the founders didn't use it. 'well regulated' meant well trained and functioning efficiently. that each person had a gun, 2 pounds of powder, and a bag of shot, and knew how to use it.

it's absolutely ridiculous for you to sit here and believe that the framers of the constitution fought against government tyranny, one who attempted to disarm them, and then write a document that mandated only government forces had a right to bear arms. stupid much?

are you ready for that lesson on ratification now?
 
So Yurt the neg repper, what did they mean by well regulated?

waaaa, waaa....yurt is a meany :)

its been answered for you already, then again, don't forget you're not the final arbitor and scotus has already ruled that under fed law the second applies to individuals....
 
So Yurt the neg repper, what did they mean by well regulated?

100% of able-bodied/minded citizens represent the militia (non-military citizen force). Minus those people who are part of private militias, and the national guard, which is a militia run by the military, everyone is expected to be able to contribute to the defense of the homeland.

Hence, everyone is expected to learn how to handle a firearm on their own. In the time of the founding, villages and townships drilled and trained everyone to fight, and they usually elected an experienced and skilled militiaman or frontiersman to captain the militia and appoint officers underneith his rank (like a sherriff and deputies).

The 2nd Amendment states the value of having armed citizens and a functioning militia in America, because the closer we get to 100% gun ownership, the more intimidating we are to any invader force. In the end, however, the 2nd grants a blanket right to universal gun ownership, and doesn't even specify Congress, so we can assume it means not infringed by any governing body at all levels.
 
So Yurt the neg repper, what did they mean by well regulated?

well regulated referred to well provisioned or provided for

also, they were to keep their weapons at home, something that our national guard and reserve units do not do
 
Section 2.



The President shall be the Commander in Chief of the

Army, and Navy, and of the Militia of the several

States, when called into actual Service of the United

States; ....


They were not talking about anything but this well regulated militia


http://law.onecle.com/constitution/article-2/10-commander-in-chief.html
That's rather irrelevant to what is at hand. The ability of the president to call forth the militia in a time of need does not preclude them from providing their own personal arms and supplies (as per the whole 'well regulated' part).
 
Where in the fuck do you think you have the authority to determine for all Americans what THE FOUNDERS MEANT?
Where do YOU think YOU have the authority to make EXACTLY that same kind of determination, and in the process support the removal/limitation of a Constitutionally guaranteed right? Fucking hypocrite.

Where we get OUR authority is from the writings of the founders themselves. Ever heard of the Federalist Papers? How about the Anti-Federalist Papers? Have you bothered to read the minutes of the Constitutional Convention? How about the minutes of the First U.S Congress that records the debate over adding the Bill of Rights?

The obvious to all answer to the above, for you and your type, is "what the fuck are those?"
 
"The right to bear arms shall not be infringed"

By whom and when?

Do you really think anyone should be allowed to own and secretly transport anything that qualifies as an arm?


How do you prevent any terrorism with that standard?
and
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Why is THIS one sentance?

Because they were talking about the states being allowed to bear arms and have their own militia.


They wanted to have each state have its own protection to prevent the central government from dissarming any state.

You people want to fantisize about carrying a flame gun and mounting it on your personal tank.

How do you feel about every rapper owning all the arms they can afford and handing them out to his loyal fans in your neighborhood?
and
Well regulated by who you fool?

They were talking about a well regulated militia.
and
But they put in the caveot of a WELL REGULATED MILITIA huh butthead.
Says the ignorant twit who is demonstrating zero knowledge about U.S. history, the process we went through deciding we needed a stronger federal government than that provided in the Articles of Confederation, and the following addition of the Biil of Rights, the reason the Bill of RIghts was added, or anything else about the free Republic the Constitution created. If it isn't mandated by DNC rhetoric, it does not exist.

Here's a challenge (I've issued this before, with no takers, but it's obviously time to repeat it): I will give below some quotes sustaining the open interpretation of the 2nd amendment - that it is intended to give the PEOPLE the right to any and all weapons necessary to defend themselves from any encroachment of tyranny from their own government. You find ONE counter quote for every FIVE that I post. However, they must be quotes from the same period in time -- ie: when the BOR were being drafted, contemplated, and added to the Constitution, and/or from those who were involved with the process. Quotes from historically illiterate idiots 200 years later do not count, since the idea is determining what is meant according to those who wrote it. Claiming that someone's opinion in the latest 9th Circuit Court case somehow refutes the founder's stated intentions is plain assed stupid.

So, here you go:

1) "The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been recognized by the General Government; but the best security of that right after all is, the military spirit, that taste for martial exercises, which has always distinguished the free citizens of these States....Such men form the best barrier to the liberties of America" - (Gazette of the United States, October 14, 1789.)

2) "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334)

3) "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788)

4) "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 {August 17, 1789}])

5) "...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

6) "...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)(this one is strong proof the founders intended the citizenry to have access to the same weapons as soldiers have. If the soldiers' weapons change, so do those of the citizenry.)

7) "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper No. 46.)

8) "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." (Tench Coxe in 'Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution' under the Pseudonym 'A Pennsylvanian' in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1)

9) "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788) (another strong indicator that the arms of a common soldier should also be available to the citizenry.)(Another strong indicator that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to give ALL people full legal access to the arms of the common soldier. In short, it isn't about hunting, it isn't about personal defense, it is about defense against tyranny of government.)

10) "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)

11) "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, 1788)

12) "The great object is that every man be armed" and "everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)

13) "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" (Patrick Henry)(I guess ol' Pat is answering you directly in this one....)

14) "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..." (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts)

15) "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787)

16) "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson) (And there it is, for anyonme to read and comprehend, from one of the MAIN leaders in our path to a free nation: THE reason for the existence of the 2nd Amendment.)

17) "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington) (one of my favorites!)

18) "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. (Thomas Jefferson, 1788)

19) "Those, who have the command of the arms in a country are masters of the state, and have it in their power to make what revolutions they please. Thus, there is no end to observations on the difference between the measures likely to be pursued by a minister backed by a standing army, and those of a court awed by the fear of an armed people." (John Trenchard paraphrasing Aristotle)

20) "What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787)

21) "On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823)

22) "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787)

23) "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government" (Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper #28)

24) "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." (Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796)

25) "We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed" (Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824)

There ya go. All you need do is find FIVE quotes from the people of the time that refute the above declarations which CLEARLY outline that the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is to allow the people the recourse of force against a encroaching tyranny from their own government.

Are you up to it?
 
...There ya go. All you need do is find FIVE quotes from the people of the time that refute the above declarations which CLEARLY outline that the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment is to allow the people the recourse of force against a encroaching tyranny from their own government.

Are you up to it?
Obviously not - as usual. The "militia=State" morons never have known shit from apple butter.
 
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