Obama's brownie moment: Geithner to Remain as Treasury Chief

[Damocles]

The root causes of the economic problems in Europe and the United States are not the same thing. Our economy is not suffering from a sovereign debt crisis. It is incredibly cheap for us to borrow money, notwithstanding what S&P says. Pretending our problems and those in Europe are the same just shows that you don't know what in the hell you are talking about. It makes a nice narrative and I bet convinces the rubes (someone set the hook in you pretty damn hard) but it's just not the case.

Yeah, because a global debt crisis can't effect the US. Stupid. The only reason our debt is cheap is because our money remains precariously perched on the "standard" dollar. If we continue down the road we are on it will not remain so, and we'll be hurting even worse. It is foolish to deliberately ignore a crippling global wound in which we are definitely involved because the problems are not exactly the same. Once size may not fit all, but the resolution of a debt crisis does not come about by pretending we aren't already in debt. We are now over 100% of the GDP in debt, and we promise to reduce our deficit spending by 200 Billion. As soon as the deal was reached we flat told you we would be downgraded, and were right.

This Administration's policies are absolutely driving us into the exact same economic quagmire that had us "off in the ditch"...

 

[Damocles]

The root causes of the economic problems in Europe and the United States are not the same thing. Our economy is not suffering from a sovereign debt crisis. It is incredibly cheap for us to borrow money, notwithstanding what S&P says. Pretending our problems and those in Europe are the same just shows that you don't know what in the hell you are talking about. It makes a nice narrative and I bet convinces the rubes (someone set the hook in you pretty damn hard) but it's just not the case.

Yeah, because a global debt crisis can't effect the US. Stupid. The only reason our debt is cheap is because our money remains precariously perched on the "standard" platform. If we continue down the road we are on it will not remain so, and we'll be hurting even worse. It is foolish to deliberately ignore a crippling global wound in which we are definitely involved because the problems are not exactly the same. Once size may not fit all, but the resolution of a debt crisis does not come about by pretending we aren't already in debt. We are now over 100% of the GDP in debt, and we promise to reduce our deficit spending by 200 Billion. As soon as the deal was reached we flat told you we would be downgraded, and were right.

This Administration's policies are absolutely driving us into the exact same economic quagmire that had us "off in the ditch"...

 

[Bonestorm]

Yeah, because a global debt crisis can't effect the US. Stupid. The only reason our debt is cheap is because our money remains precariously perched on the "standard" dollar. If we continue down the road we are on it will not remain so, and we'll be hurting even worse. It is foolish to deliberately ignore a crippling global wound in which we are definitely involved because the problems are not exactly the same. Once size may not fit all, but the resolution of a debt crisis does not come about by pretending we aren't already in debt. We are now over 100% of the GDP in debt, and we promise to reduce our deficit spending by 200 Billion. As soon as the deal was reached we flat told you we would be downgraded, and were right.

This Administration's policies are absolutely driving us into the exact same economic quagmire that had us "off in the ditch"...

I posted this chart on Friday and I'll post it again. This a chart of historical interest rates on the 10 year Treasury:

If we actually were experiencing a debt crisis we wouldn't be experiencing historically low interest rates on our debt. People want to lend us money, regardless of what S&P says. Of course, a financial collapse in Europe will impact the United States economy, but the root problems there and here are not the same. Like I said, it makes a nice narrative but the story you are peddling is nonsense.

 

[Damocles]

I posted this chart on Friday and I'll post it again. This a chart of historical interest rates on the 10 year Treasury:

If we actually were experiencing a debt crisis we wouldn't be experiencing historically low interest rates on our debt. People want to lend us money, regardless of what S&P says. Of course, a financial collapse in Europe will impact the United States economy, but the root problems there and here are not the same. Like I said, it makes a nice narrative but the story you are peddling is nonsense.

Again, debt cost isn't what will get us (well after the dollar is no longer the standard it will), but debt level absolutely will. It is foolish to ignore the very real fact that we are part of the global debt crisis and post another chart that it is "cheap" for the government to borrow money. Ask the Brits what happened when the Pound was no longer the standard, it wasn't pretty.

We are part of the global debt crisis, and it is absolutely not the Keynesian theory that got us there, it was a stupid bastardization of a theory meant to help with the downside of the economic cycles. Keynes' theory was never created to solve a global debt crisis, and pretending that still more debt is what will get us there is both stupid, and will absolutely lead to future downgrades, still more expensive debt, and a selection of another monetary standard. Shoot they were arguing doing that before the excrement hit the electrical convenience.

 

[Bonestorm]

Again, debt cost isn't what will get us (well after the dollar is no longer the standard it will), but debt level absolutely will. It is foolish to ignore the very real fact that we are part of the global debt crisis and post another chart that it is "cheap" for the government to borrow money. Ask the Brits what happened when the Pound was no longer the standard, it wasn't pretty.

We are part of the global debt crisis, and it is absolutely not the Keynesian theory that got us there, it was a stupid bastardization of a theory meant to help with the downside of the economic cycles. Keynes' theory was never created to solve a global debt crisis, and pretending that still more debt is what will get us there is both stupid, and will absolutely lead to future downgrades, still more expensive debt, and a selection of another monetary standard. Shoot they were arguing doing that before the excrement hit the electrical convenience.

You crack me up. I can't tell whether you really believe this nonsense or not, but my strong suspicion is that you're a genuine true believer.

 

[Onceler]

Obama Disappointment Syndrome only strikes lefties. And yes, I think it is likely tough to live with. I'd hate to have to defend even worse policy than Bush's.

I wouldn't say it's worse than Bush's, which was non-existant, at all. And the point is that there is no comparison w/ brownie, who was unqualified for the job he had. Geithner is a qualified individual, whose policies I understand you disagree with.

 

[Damocles]

You crack me up. I can't tell whether you really believe this nonsense or not, but my strong suspicion is that you're a genuine true believer.

And I would say the same about you. We absolutely cannot afford 4 more years of Obama's policy, but the true believers will persistently ignore that he follows the exact same insane debt policy as Bush. It will absolutely take actually doing something differently to get a different result this time. This guy isn't going to get us there.

 

[Bonestorm]

And I would say the same about you. We absolutely cannot afford 4 more years of Obama's policy, but the true believers will persistently ignore that he follows the exact same insane debt policy as Bush. It will absolutely take actually doing something differently to get a different result this time. This guy isn't going to get us there.

I understand that you feel that way since you are a Republican. But you should base your argument against Obama on facts, not bullshit fairy tales.

 

[Damocles]

I understand that you feel that way since you are a Republican. But you should base your argument against Obama on facts, not bullshit fairy tales.

Or you could base your argument for him on something other than unsupported claims. Tell me again how he has saved a zillion jobs... That will make you feel better. Bush III wasn't the right choice for America. Bush II wasn't either, but Bush III has been disastrous of his own accord.

 

[Bonestorm]

Or you could base your argument for him on something other than unsupported claims. Tell me again how he has saved a zillion jobs... That will make you feel better. Bush III wasn't the right choice for America. Bush II wasn't either, but Bush III has been disastrous of his own accord.

Those aren't facts.

 

[Damocles]

Those aren't facts.

Nor was your post. However, it is a fact that we follow the same disastrous debt policy under this president as the past one, actually I gave him the benefit of the doubt they are worse, your answer was to tell me that the new credit cards are "still cheap", then try to distract from your lack of real argument and announce your plan to deliberately ignore that we are in a global crisis and that we should cheer, because we got a low interest rate on the new credit cards....

We can remain blissfully unaware that our economic plan is leading us into another debt bubble so long as we have a "cheap" card... It can't possibly effect us negatively.

Seriously, I am glad I don't have to try to defend this President's policy. I'd be embarrassed too.

 

[Bonestorm]

Nor was your post. However, it is a fact that we follow the same disastrous debt policy under this president as the past one, actually I gave him the benefit of the doubt they are worse, your answer was to tell me that the new credit cards are "still cheap", then try to distract from your lack of real argument and announce your plan to deliberately ignore that we are in a global crisis and that we should cheer, because we got a low interest rate on the new credit cards....

We can remain blissfully unaware that our economic plan is leading us into another debt bubble so long as we have a "cheap" card... It can't possibly effect us negatively.

Seriously, I am glad I don't have to try to defend this President's policy. I'd be embarrassed too.

Dude, you're trying to pretend that the US government presently has a sovereign debt crisis akin to those of European countries. It just ins't true. If it were true, we wouldn't have sub 3% interest rates.

Then again, you're the same guy that thinks that the Treasury sets the rate for Treasury notes so it's no wonder you don't get it.

 

[Bonestorm]

And on the subject of Geithner. Given the Senate Republicans' intransigence on Obama's nominees, it's so wonder he's sticking around.

 

[Damocles]

Dude, you're trying to pretend that the US government presently has a sovereign debt crisis akin to those of European countries. It just ins't true. If it were true, we wouldn't have sub 3% interest rates.

Then again, you're the same guy that thinks that the Treasury sets the rate for Treasury notes so it's no wonder you don't get it.

No, I am not. I am trying to get this idiotic policy from continuing so we don't end up there. We need to have someone else at the tiller, somebody not quite so ideologue as Bush II and Bush III. And I'd like you to link up to your idiotic ad hom I have never said the Treasury sets the rate for Treasury notes, that comes from the "Sh*t Dungheap makes up" file....

 

[Bonestorm]

No, I am not. I am trying to get this idiotic policy from continuing so we don't end up there. And I'd like you to link up to your idiotic ad hom...

What ad hom?

 

[Damocles]

What ad hom?

I have never said the Treasury sets the rate for Treasury notes, that comes from the "Sh*t Dungheap makes up" file.... I think you have me confused with a different poster.

 

[Bonestorm]

I have never said the Treasury sets the rate for Treasury notes, that comes from the "Sh*t Dungheap makes up" file.... I think you have me confused with a different poster.

It was in the "Reagan on the Debt Ceiling" thread. I can dig it up if you like.

 

[Damocles]

It was in the "Reagan on the Debt Ceiling" thread. I can dig it up if you like.

Dig away, it isn't something I said.

 

[Bonestorm]

Dig away, it isn't something I said.

Really?

He has interest rates we pay, but they set those in the FED, it would be the same as matching up interest rates for your mortgages some in the 70s paid upwards of 14% and higher for their mortgage, those same people today would be paying 6% and lower, even those without the best credit.. Saying that interest rates are the same thing as credit rating shows a misunderstanding, it certainly doesn't prove "better" credit now than we had then.

The reality is our credit was recently downgraded due to the S&P indicators not believing the US has a healthy interest in paying their debt. We haven't paid a dime of our debt since 1962, not one iota of our money has gone towards debt reduction, why would we start now?

Looks like you said it to me.

 

[Damocles]

Really?



Looks like you said it to me.

I wasn't talking about T-bills. I was speaking as to how they set rates that are paid between the banks. Are you saying that they do not raise or lower rates to control inflation or to stimulate the economy? Or are you saying that the only way we create debt is with Treasury notes?

You know, we get stories like this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/07/business/la-fi-0807-petruno-20100807

Like I said, the "Sh*t Dungheap Makes up" file.