Obama Vs. Bush On Debt

Mott the Hoople said:
That's just simply not true Damo. For the vast majority of our history the public fiscus has been sound and the danger of a BBA is that it would tie the hands of government during a crises.
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This is utter bullshit. No plan ever considered for a BBA, has not addressed this possibility. Mott, this is the very FIRST thing anyone has any concern about, when we discuss a BBA... why would you think it wouldn't be addressed by Congress? The BBA would have caveats for times of war and crisis, allowing the government the flexibility to handle those events without breaching the BBA. To sit here and pretend that no one has addressed those concerns, and this is why you couldn't support it, is absolute and abject ignorance of the highest order... it doesn't even make rational sense. Of course, you're among the rational geniuses who want to extend our debt ceiling without even discussing our spending and debt... so that's not a surprise.
 
Dixie said:
Yeah, I know... you just commented on the question... I see a lot of that kind of commentary lately... Oh well, they all suck, the American people are the losers... All politicians are crooked... All political parties blow chunks... Dems and Repubs are both stupid.... Well, what the fuck do you people want to do, declare martial law? Because the last time I checked, we have a two party system in America, and either the Democrats or Republicans control power in Washington. You can bitch and moan about it, you can lambaste both parties and all politicians, but what do you propose as a solution to rectify the problem, anarchy?

I just get sick of the fence-sitting moderates, acting like they are 'above it all' with their equal bashing of the D's and R's... as if that is some sort of intelligent answer to our problems! It's nothing but mindless drivel from people who can't think for themselves, and haven't thought about this past their own emotions. You gotta choice here... support the Marxist Socialist Democrat Party... or support whoever runs against them from the GOP. There is no other alternative, unless you want to NOT vote...or vote for some Libertarian no one has heard of... (same as giving a vote to the Marxist Socialists).
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I have absolutely zero problem if someone chooses to vote Libertarian or third party. Saying that it's a vote for the Democrats is the same line Democrats use 'oh it's a vote for Republicans if you vote Green'.

I have said all along I am a Republican. I have said all along I voted for Bush twice. But it also doesn't mean I have to be a fucking hack about it because yeah the Republicans do fuck up a lot and most of them are politicians who worry about getting re-elected first and principle second. I'm sorry if that truth bothers you. So I'm not going to stop bitching about the Republicans when I feel they are doing wrong. No disrespect but I could care less if that bothers you. At the end of the day I care about results not which party does something.

I live in the most liberal City in the U.S. I live in a City where it is more accepted for someone to come out and say they are gay than to say they are Republican. If I couldn't think for myself and just followed the crowd I'd be a fucking liberal.

So back to the OP. Bush sucked when it came to the national debt. I am open to hear why you believe he didn't.
 
cawacko said:
I have absolutely zero problem if someone chooses to vote Libertarian or third party. Saying that it's a vote for the Democrats is the same line Democrats use 'oh it's a vote for Republicans if you vote Green'.

I have said all along I am a Republican. I have said all along I voted for Bush twice. But it also doesn't mean I have to be a fucking hack about it because yeah the Republicans do fuck up a lot and most of them are politicians who worry about getting re-elected first and principle second. I'm sorry if that truth bothers you. So I'm not going to stop bitching about the Republicans when I feel they are doing wrong. No disrespect but I could care less if that bothers you. At the end of the day I care about results not which party does something.

I live in the most liberal City in the U.S. I live in a City where it is more accepted for someone to come out and say they are gay than to say they are Republican. If I couldn't think for myself and just followed the crowd I'd be a fucking liberal.

So back to the OP. Bush sucked when it came to the national debt. I am open to hear why you believe he didn't.
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I'm not going to argue a moot point, it doesn't accomplish anything. Most conservatives I know personally, feel the same way you do about Bush, and if you do a search of my threads from the Bush years, you'll find I was his most outspoken critic when it came to his 'compassionate conservative' spending.... but Bush isn't running for president, and no one who is running on the right, is trumpeting Bush era spending. So why do you want to criticize Republicans now, for something that is in the past, that no one can ever change or do anything about? How does that help in defeating the Marxist Socialist in the White House? Oh sure, maybe you feel better getting it off your chest, and look, a few pinheads chimed in with chortles of approval for you being forthright... but at the end of the day, what did it do to help defeat Obama in 2012?

You can go run to some idiot third party candidate if you like... but a Republican or Democrat will be elected the next president. This should be as simple as deciding whether you support Statism or Capitalism. If you don't support either one, fuck it... tune out.... but most people have some idea whether they want to live in a Socialist Statist country or whether they want to live in a capitalist free enterprise country. At this point, there isn't a middle ground, those are the two choices we have for the future, if there is to be one. You can piddle around wasting your vote and political energy on a third party nut if you like, but I feel this is too important to throw away my vote and support.
 
Dixie said:
I'm not going to argue a moot point, it doesn't accomplish anything. Most conservatives I know personally, feel the same way you do about Bush, and if you do a search of my threads from the Bush years, you'll find I was his most outspoken critic when it came to his 'compassionate conservative' spending.... but Bush isn't running for president, and no one who is running on the right, is trumpeting Bush era spending. So why do you want to criticize Republicans now, for something that is in the past, that no one can ever change or do anything about? How does that help in defeating the Marxist Socialist in the White House? Oh sure, maybe you feel better getting it off your chest, and look, a few pinheads chimed in with chortles of approval for you being forthright... but at the end of the day, what did it do to help defeat Obama in 2012?

You can go run to some idiot third party candidate if you like... but a Republican or Democrat will be elected the next president. This should be as simple as deciding whether you support Statism or Capitalism. If you don't support either one, fuck it... tune out.... but most people have some idea whether they want to live in a Socialist Statist country or whether they want to live in a capitalist free enterprise country. At this point, there isn't a middle ground, those are the two choices we have for the future, if there is to be one. You can piddle around wasting your vote and political energy on a third party nut if you like, but I feel this is too important to throw away my vote and support.
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Just my opinion of course but I don't think me responding to a thread about Bush and Obama both being bad in terms of debt is going to effect what happens in the 2012 Presidential election. We are 15 months away from that election as it is. I didn't vote for Obama in '08 and I surely am not voting for him in '12 (not that this matters in any way at all as he will easily win California) but I'll always be honest about my opinion. The type of partisanship of my side or team can do no wrong if that is not the case does not appeal to me.
 
cawacko said:
Just my opinion of course but I don't think me responding to a thread about Bush and Obama both being bad in terms of debt is going to effect what happens in the 2012 Presidential election. We are 15 months away from that election as it is. I didn't vote for Obama in '08 and I surely am not voting for him in '12 (not that this matters in any way at all as he will easily win California) but I'll always be honest about my opinion. The type of partisanship of my side or team can do no wrong if that is not the case does not appeal to me.
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I understand that, but understand this.. if Obama wins in 2012, we're done. The country we once knew is no more. Gone are our freedoms and rights, and our entire system of government, if they can pull it all off. They'll have 4 years to do as they please... so you need to think about it.... every time you feel compelled to post some 'moderate' equality-bashing of the Republicans.. it's not helping to defeat Obama. You're not winning any 'street cred' with the pinheads either... I know quite a few conservatives... some more conservative than me on things.... who somehow think it curries favor with a pinhead, if you are seen as bashing your own 'team' as you put it. I'm just way fucking past winning the favor of pinheads. And if you notice, the goodwill stuff never works with them.. ask McCain...no, on second thought... I don't think he knows it yet, he's still in denial. You can't fence sit anymore, it's not making you look 'cool' or 'hip' to be seen as 'independently moderate' or whatever you think you're being. Leave the sullen cynicism to Waterdork, there's too much at stake here.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's just simply not true Damo. For the vast majority of our history the public fiscus has been sound and the danger of a BBA is that it would tie the hands of government during a crises.
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You are truly foolish. Comments like 'for the vast majority of our history' may be accurate, but look at the past 50 years.... OVER FIFTY STRAIGHT YEARS OF OUR NATION'S IDIOTS IN DC RAISING OUR DEBT YEAR OVER YEAR.

that is NOT fiscal responsibility.

Second... the BBA can accomodate for 'emergencies'. But in times when GDP is positive.... we don't need TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT SPENDING.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
It's a fucking loaded question and a strawman. How much of the spending during Obama's administration were due to the fucking total mess he inherited from Bush? How much did TARP cost us? How much did Bush's two fucked up foreign wars cost us? Were over extended in both Iraq and Afghanistan and it aint like you can just say "Fuck it" and pull out.
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You are quite the twit. It is not a straw man. Do you even know what a straw man IS?

According to the idiots in DC... the TARP money has been repaid. So the better question is.... WHAT THE FUCK DID OBAMA DO WITH THE MONEY THAT WAS REPAID??????

Bushonomics have devastated this nation. He fucking drove us into the ditch and ya'll fucking enabled him and didn't fucking say jack squat about the debt during the whole 8 disastrous years and now ya'll have the religion of deficit reduction?
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It is truly amusing watching the parrots and their 'he drove us in a ditch, bwack, drove us in a ditch, polly wanna cracker!'

You are also full of shit to state that none of us commented and bitched about his spending. We did.

Can you say "No Credibility"?
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yes I can.... OBAMA
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You show me a BBA that isn't loaded up with gimmicks to kick money upstairs and tie our nations government during times of crises and I"ll vote for it. I've been a deficit hawk since 1990. Where were you guys 5 years ago when, to quote Dick Cheney "Deficits didnt' matter."?
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ROFLMAO.... you are NO deficit hawk. You are sitting here stating that our country has been fiscally responsible for 'the vast majority of our history' and you are defending the INSANE levels of spending that have come from Obama.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
It's a fucking loaded question and a strawman. How much of the spending during Obama's administration were due to the fucking total mess he inherited from Bush? How much did TARP cost us? How much did Bush's two fucked up foreign wars cost us? Were over extended in both Iraq and Afghanistan and it aint like you can just say "Fuck it" and pull out.

Bushonomics have devastated this nation. He fucking drove us into the ditch and ya'll fucking enabled him and didn't fucking say jack squat about the debt during the whole 8 disastrous years and now ya'll have the religion of deficit reduction?

Can you say "No Credibility"?
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When will you Democrats take responsibility for creating and extending this financial crisis?
 
Dixie said:
I understand that, but understand this.. if Obama wins in 2012, we're done. The country we once knew is no more. Gone are our freedoms and rights, and our entire system of government, if they can pull it all off. They'll have 4 years to do as they please... so you need to think about it.... every time you feel compelled to post some 'moderate' equality-bashing of the Republicans.. it's not helping to defeat Obama. You're not winning any 'street cred' with the pinheads either... I know quite a few conservatives... some more conservative than me on things.... who somehow think it curries favor with a pinhead, if you are seen as bashing your own 'team' as you put it. I'm just way fucking past winning the favor of pinheads. And if you notice, the goodwill stuff never works with them.. ask McCain...no, on second thought... I don't think he knows it yet, he's still in denial. You can't fence sit anymore, it's not making you look 'cool' or 'hip' to be seen as 'independently moderate' or whatever you think you're being. Leave the sullen cynicism to Waterdork, there's too much at stake here.
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Do you want to know what my family members and friends call me? 'A right-wing cracker.' Yes that is how they view me. It is possible they would want to kill me or disown me if I was a true social conservative. Hence I don't care what they think, my views are my views and thus I'm not trying to win any accolades or trying to look cool. I'm a dedicated member of the Republican Party but I'm also not going to be an enabler who sits back and says nothing when they do things I don't like. Fuck that dude.
 
Damn Yankee said:
When will you Democrats take responsibility for creating and extending this financial crisis?
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Trouble is, most Americans say Bush and the Republicans caused the issue, according to the polls I've seen.


 
Superfreak said:
You are quite the twit. It is not a straw man. Do you even know what a straw man IS?

According to the idiots in DC... the TARP money has been repaid. So the better question is.... WHAT THE FUCK DID OBAMA DO WITH THE MONEY THAT WAS REPAID??????



It is truly amusing watching the parrots and their 'he drove us in a ditch, bwack, drove us in a ditch, polly wanna cracker!'

You are also full of shit to state that none of us commented and bitched about his spending. We did.



yes I can.... OBAMA
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There is a reason historians judge Presidents years after they are out of office, shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. For example when Clinton left office I didn't hear too many people saying 'that decision to remove Glass-Steagal is really going to f*ck in a few years'. With hindsight it seems to have not been the best decision. The financial crisis happened on Bush's watch that is fact. Everything that built up and led to financial crisis though didn't start and happen in the first six years of his Presidency it started years and decades before.
 
cawacko said:
There is a reason historians judge Presidents years after they are out of office, shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. For example when Clinton left office I didn't hear too many people saying 'that decision to remove Glass-Steagal is really going to f*ck in a few years'. With hindsight it seems to have not been the best decision. The financial crisis happened on Bush's watch that is fact. Everything that built up and led to financial crisis though didn't start and happen in the first six years of his Presidency it started years and decades before.
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I agree. Likewise, in time the whole nonsense of 'he had a surplus' will be put to rest. Very few on the left ever mention that Bush inherited a recession, instead they harp on that imaginary 'surplus'.
 
Dixie said:
Let's think a little more pragmatically and not so cynically... mmk?

I mean... what do YOU want us to do, cawako? Bash and trash Republicans, the only party who stands any chance of defeating the Marxist Socialists who've taken over the country? I fail to see what that will accomplish... yeah, I can bow up and just say that all politicians are bad, they all need to be thrown out of office.... but what the fuck do you suggest we replace them with, if not, more politicians?
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I believe the fringe of the Republican Party have decidely bought into the mass hysteria and fear mongering they are inundated with on a daily basis and folded. This daily and systematic brainwashing of the main stream media and the hijinks of that freshman we have attempting to lead our country (firmly and puposefully into the ground) is more than they can bear. It's easier to capitulate and simper away to lick your wounds in some dark, dank, bar where booze is the salve for their weakness and the only reprecussions is the next days hangover.

The machine is too much for them.
 
usaloyal2theend said:
I believe the fringe of the Republican Party have decidely bought into the mass hysteria and fear mongering they are inundated with on a daily basis and folded. This daily and systematic brainwashing of the main stream media and the hijinks of that freshman we have attempting to lead our country (firmly and puposefully into the ground) is more than they can bear. It's easier to capitulate and simper away to lick your wounds in some dark, dank, bar where booze is the salve for their weakness and the only reprecussions is the next days hangover.

The machine is too much for them.
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Do you believe non fringe Republicans should not criticize other Republicans?
 
cawacko said:
Do you want to know what my family members and friends call me? 'A right-wing cracker.' Yes that is how they view me. It is possible they would want to kill me or disown me if I was a true social conservative. Hence I don't care what they think, my views are my views and thus I'm not trying to win any accolades or trying to look cool. I'm a dedicated member of the Republican Party but I'm also not going to be an enabler who sits back and says nothing when they do things I don't like. Fuck that dude.
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Oh, I know, you are conservative as the day is long, I've 'thanked' many of your brilliant posts over the years. I think that's what bothers me the most about your comments. A fitting analogy would be, if your car wasn't running well, and you decided that taking a baseball bat to it might help... it won't, but it may make you feel better to bash your car all to hell. There is only one party that can defeat Obama and the Democrats, and it doesn't help to pound them with a baseball bat over stuff they did in the past. You don't like the Republican establishment? Fine! Don't vote for Mitt Romney! Stop supporting whatever yahoo the establishment tells you to, and nominate someone who feels the same as you and I on the direction of the Republican party and the country.
 
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