Obama Has Paralyzed the CIA

Southern Man said:
Actually, I applied the relevant portions in context, and demonstrated that the way you choose to apply them makes taxation torture.
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the hell you did. you chose to maintain that anguish or agony could only apply to physical pain and that anyone who thought that emotional or mental stress equaled anguish didn't know what they were talking about. again, simple obtuseness.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
the hell you did. you chose to maintain that anguish or agony could only apply to physical pain and that anyone who thought that emotional or mental stress equaled anguish didn't know what they were talking about. again, simple obtuseness.
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Actually:

Southern Man said:
I suppose you could piece out the definition to suit your argument, but definition 1a relies on 1b for clarity: "...b: something that causes agony or pain".

Otherwise someone could consider taxation to be torture.
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*shrug*
 
I don't agree with SM on most issues, at least not his style in saying whatever. But it's very interesting to see the reaction. You Obama supporters are freaking! Just like with tea parties.

Is it that you know, deep down, that this whole administration is a train wreck? Yeah, it is.
 
Southern Man said:
Shall I quote the dictionary's definition again? You failed to make your point last time after I brought that up, so what has changed?
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Definitions of Waterboarding on the Web:

* Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward and pouring water over the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

* A type of torture in which the victim is immobilized, has rags placed over their face, and has water poured onto them, which creates the sensation ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/waterboarding

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.
http://www.reference.com/search?q=Water+Boarding
 
Interesting concept that not using torture paralizes the CIA...

Interesting from the point of studying mental illness and how it impacts our political system.
 
SR_ said:
This isnt a political issue, and only fools turn it into one. Some people need to be convinced what the true definition of torture is. Ive already demonstrated that some of you actually believe we executed Japanese officers solely for waterboarding (and it wasnt even the same method we use), at the same time you also compare actual torture, as in actions that left physical scars, were actually physically damaging, extremely painful and where death had occurred. You use the same term to describe both... the methods we use which do not cause any physical harm and certainly with no threat of death, and the methods that do cause physical harm and in some cases death both mean the same thing to you. This is unfortunate.

This isnt to say that it cant be an offense to the sensitivities of some of you, clearly for some of you if the food tastes bad then its "torture", you fling around the terms as long as they justify your political argument. Its sad.

At the same time when you prosecute people by redefining words and losing perspective you do hold the threat over the people currently trying to do their jobs, and it inhibits them. "Is the food warm enough?", "Is the cell temperature just right?", "Should we use handcuffs?"... "I dont want to go to jail because someone at any moment can redefine what my intentions are and prosecute me."

This is a bad road to go down for nothing but political goals. National Security is bad place for politicians to be leading with hunts in order to get votes.

SR
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How do you now explain one of the latest memos to be made public that the CIA itself admitted that water was going in the noses and mouths of the subjects? So I guess it WAS like what we prosecuted.
 
You're both wrong. The definition of what qualifies as torture in the US has a lot to do with what shocks the conscience. Since conservatives have no conscience, they like to write off torture as college pranks.
 
It seems to me that we are arguing whether the end justifies the means.

I don't think that it does. When these "enhanced interrogation" methods were used there had to be other verification of the information obtained. So the tortures were not the only source of information.
 
christiefan915 said:
Definitions of Waterboarding on the Web:

* Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward and pouring water over the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

* A type of torture in which the victim is immobilized, has rags placed over their face, and has water poured onto them, which creates the sensation ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/waterboarding

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.
http://www.reference.com/search?q=Water+Boarding
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All three of your sources are Wikipedia, long known for liberal bias, and who's sole qualification for authorship is a valid email address. *shrug*
 
Annie said:
I don't agree with SM on most issues, at least not his style in saying whatever. But it's very interesting to see the reaction. You Obama supporters are freaking! Just like with tea parties.

Is it that you know, deep down, that this whole administration is a train wreck? Yeah, it is.
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What's wrong with my style, Annie? Too blunt?
 
charver said:
But is there any source outside of Fox 'News' which doesn't have a liberal bias?
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This discussion boils down to the definition of a specific word. The only unbiased source is a dictionary who's definitions do not change with political whims.
 
Southern Man said:
This discussion boils down to the definition of a specific word. The only unbiased source is a dictionary who's definitions do not change with political whims.
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Actually it's a legal matter and a dictionary does not suffice for the legal definition of torture.
 
I think we, as a nation, have defined the word clearly enough. And we have agreed to abide by international treaties on the subject.
 
WinterBorn said:
I think we, as a nation, have defined the word clearly enough. And we have agreed to abide by international treaties on the subject.
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Which international agreement defines torture with respect to those who don't abide by international rules of conflict?
 
Southern Man said:
"Legal" is a summary of opinions. I prefer to base my opinion on facts, not other opinions. :)
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That's maybe where you've been going wrong then.

You can come up with your own definition of tax evasion if you like and refuse to pay any more of you hard earned dollars to the government. When the court gives it's decision i wouldn't fancy your chances much though.
 
Southern Man said:
Which international agreement defines torture with respect to those who don't abide by international rules of conflict?
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Combatants are defined as "Lawful" or "Unlawful". And I believe that we have signed agreements concerning torture that cover both. But I would bow to someone else's more complete knowledge of the subject.
 
WinterBorn said:
Combatants are defined as "Lawful" or "Unlawful". And I believe that we have signed agreements concerning torture that cover both. But I would bow to someone else's more complete knowledge of the subject.
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Southern Man is not a person with more complete knowledge. There is no distinction in the UN Convention Against Torture or U.S. law between lawful and unlawful combatants when it comes to torture. Torture is illegal. Period. Full stop.
 
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