Obama Apology Tour

[DamnYankee]

Why not? Even if they don't think he's going to step in and heal them, what would it hurt to say thank you?

First because it would be a waste of time for a "deist" to do that. Second Washington was asking for intervention not simply "thanks for intervening". *shrug*

 

[Damocles]

First because it would be a waste of time for a "deist" to do that. Second Washington was asking for intervention not simply "thanks for intervening". *shrug*

Wasting time is their choice, it is not yours to determine when and where they waste their own life's time. Even if you have a parent that consistently ignores you, sometimes you cry out anyway.

Actually, GW also believed that it was Providence who intervened on Christmas Eve when he crossed the Delaware, he wasn't likely a pure Deist, but he certainly never mentioned that it was "Christ Jesus His Personal Savior" that ever helped him, nor is there evidence that he ever stated a belief in such an Entity.

 

[Canceled2]

Wasting time is their choice, it is not yours to determine when and where they waste their own life's time. Even if you have a parent that consistently ignores you, sometimes you cry out anyway.

Actually, GW also believed that it was Providence who intervened on Christmas Eve when he crossed the Delaware, he wasn't likely a pure Deist, but he certainly never mentioned that it was "Christ Jesus His Personal Savior" that ever helped him, nor is there evidence that he ever stated a belief in such an Entity.

Sure there is, he took communion weekly at his Espicopalian Church!

 

[Canceled2]

Site us specific evidence of that foundation from the Constitution.

Site us specific evidence that it was Kant that influened them from the Constitution. See how stupid that demand is? I think before you and others toss around the term stupid you ought to take a deep breath and hold it.

 

[Canceled2]

Damn you're like Dixie. All that verbage and you've only provided evidence that our founding fathers believed in God. You didn't provide any evidence that it was Christianity that they believed in nor did you address the point at all that our founding fathers specifically designed a secular government. You've provided absolutely no evidence to counter that point at all. Only evidence that they believed in God.

"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation." There it is again! From the Supreme Court of the United States. This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a "Christian nation".

 

[Damocles]

Sure there is, he took communion weekly at his Espicopalian Church!

Which was pointed out earlier that he attended solely for his wife, not for his belief. He made that clear in writings.

 

[DamnYankee]

Wasting time is their choice, it is not yours to determine when and where they waste their own life's time. Even if you have a parent that consistently ignores you, sometimes you cry out anyway.

Actually, GW also believed that it was Providence who intervened on Christmas Eve when he crossed the Delaware, he wasn't likely a pure Deist, but he certainly never mentioned that it was "Christ Jesus His Personal Savior" that ever helped him, nor is there evidence that he ever stated a belief in such an Entity.

Since it is well documented that GW was very private in his beliefs, and that his wife burned his personal letters to her after his death as was the custom of the day I wouldn't expect to read much specifics about Christ Jesus His Personal Savior.

 

[Damocles]

Since it is well documented that GW was very private in his beliefs, and that his wife burned his personal letters to her after his death as was the custom of the day I wouldn't expect to read much specifics about Christ Jesus His Personal Savior.

Yet we do have writings where he called on Providence instead of Christ Jesus His Personal Savior. He didn't pray to Christ because he wasn't like you, even if you wish it with all your might it won't make it so.

 

[Canceled2]

Which was pointed out earlier that he attended solely for his wife, not for his belief. He made that clear in writings.

He made nothing clear. So what you are left with are his actions. A member in good standing in Epicoplaian Churh in the 18th century means he was examined prior to membership and confessed Christ to do so. We have numerous public speeches and public prayer coupled with his private devotions. Being a Free Mason is an allegiance to a secret society and not a proof of not being a Christian.

His adopted daughter, Nelly Custis-Lewis, in response to a request from Jared Sparks in 1833 for information on Washington's religions views, wrote, "He attended the church at Alexandria when the weather and roads permitted a ride of ten miles (a one-way journey of 2-3 hours by horse or carriage). In New York and Philadelphia he never omitted attendance at church in the morning, unless detained by indisposition [sickness]." She continues by saying "No one in church attended to the services with more reverential respect." She adds: "I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, that they may be seen of men."

 

[Damocles]

He made nothing clear. So what you are left with are his actions. A member in good standing in Epicoplaian Churh in the 18th century means he was examined prior to membership and confessed Christ to do so. We have numerous public speeches and public prayer coupled with his private devotions. Being a Free Mason is an allegiance to a secret society and not a proof of not being a Christian.

His adopted daughter, Nelly Custis-Lewis, in response to a request from Jared Sparks in 1833 for information on Washington's religions views, wrote, "He attended the church at Alexandria when the weather and roads permitted a ride of ten miles (a one-way journey of 2-3 hours by horse or carriage). In New York and Philadelphia he never omitted attendance at church in the morning, unless detained by indisposition [sickness]." She continues by saying "No one in church attended to the services with more reverential respect." She adds: "I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, that they may be seen of men."

Untrue. His wife burned the letters he had, but there are still letters and stuff he wrote to others. Pretending that we have nothing, but still know his actions are that he prayed not to Christ and spoke of going to church for his wife's sake, is solely pretense. We get it from what he wrote.

We're not getting this from nowhere, some people tried to use the fact that he went to the Episcopalian church as evidence of his beliefs, he made it clear that they were not and continued to keep his true beliefs private. If such were not the case there would have been no need for people to question again his beliefs as he left office.

Personally it matters not what he believed to me, only that we have more evidence of Deism, including generic references to god such as calling him "Providence" than we do of Christianity. We know full well what Jefferson thought of Christ as a God, he removed such references in the New Testament he wrote and that still doesn't matter.

None of their beliefs would make us a "Christian" nation, even if they were Huckabee and preached of Christ daily before they held office. We are a nation with a secular government where most of the population happens to be Christian, but we are not a Christian nation.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

The difference in stupid between Ice Dancer or USFREEDOM911 and Dixie is the difference between murder and manslaughter. Ice Dancer and USFREEDOM are stupid by accident and without knowing it, whereas Dixie's stupid intentionally and in a way that is probably premeditated.

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!
What's the matter, dumbassguy??
Did that knot in your panties finally work it's way up your ass and it's not as pleasent as you thought it would be??

 

[DamnYankee]

Yet we do have writings where he called on Providence instead of Christ Jesus His Personal Savior. He didn't pray to Christ because he wasn't like you, even if you wish it with all your might it won't make it so.

That was a common term for the work of God. Then there's this:

At times Washington spoke boldly, once urging the Delaware chiefs, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all the religion of Jesus Christ.” For the most part, however, Washington kept his religious beliefs and sentiments private. Such undemonstrativeness was common among Anglicans of his time and station, as was resistance to “enthusiasm,” and a preference for decorum and formality.

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/30217.html

 

[Damocles]

That was a common term for the work of God. Then there's this: http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/30217.html

As would you, but that doesn't mean you must believe in the religion. You would do well so you could better understand your neighbor.

 

[DamnYankee]

As would you, but that doesn't mean you must believe in the religion. You would do well so you could better understand your neighbor.

No, but its obvious that Washington was a believer in God as well as a Christian.

 

[Damocles]

No, but its obvious that Washington was a believer in God as well as a Christian.

I don't believe it is "obvious" he was a Christian, nor important.

 

[DamnYankee]

I don't believe it is "obvious" he was a Christian, nor important.

You can believe that if you want, but that won't make it true no matter if you wish it with all your might it won't make it so.

Here's the words of someone who actually new the man, his stepgranddaughter Nelly Parke Curtis:

It was his custom to retire to his library at nine or ten o'clock, where he remained an hour before he went to his chamber. He always rose before the sun, and remained in his library until called to breakfasdt [sic]. I never witnessed his private devotions. I never inquired about them. I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, "that they may be seen of men." He communed with his God in secret.

http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/youasked/060.htm

*shrug*

 

[Damocles]

You can believe that if you want, but that won't make it true no matter if you wish it with all your might it won't make it so.

Here's the words of someone who actually new the man, his stepgranddaughter Nelly Parke Curtis:

http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/youasked/060.htm

*shrug*

Again, never asked, never told, not evidence. We've already spoken on that subject.

 

[DamnYankee]

Again, never asked, never told, not evidence. We've already spoken on that subject.

Again, the historical record, from someone who actually knew him: "I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity." *shrug*

 

[Canceled2]

Untrue. His wife burned the letters he had, but there are still letters and stuff he wrote to others. Pretending that we have nothing, but still know his actions are that he prayed not to Christ and spoke of going to church for his wife's sake, is solely pretense. We get it from what he wrote.

We're not getting this from nowhere, some people tried to use the fact that he went to the Episcopalian church as evidence of his beliefs, he made it clear that they were not and continued to keep his true beliefs private. If such were not the case there would have been no need for people to question again his beliefs as he left office.

Personally it matters not what he believed to me, only that we have more evidence of Deism, including generic references to god such as calling him "Providence" than we do of Christianity. We know full well what Jefferson thought of Christ as a God, he removed such references in the New Testament he wrote and that still doesn't matter.

None of their beliefs would make us a "Christian" nation, even if they were Huckabee and preached of Christ daily before they held office. We are a nation with a secular government where most of the population happens to be Christian, but we are not a Christian nation.

It was a widely held view that America was a "christian nation". This does not denote that we were a theocracy, only that the underpinings of our founding documents were greatly influenced by that religion. There is ample evidence that this is so.

The term "Providence" as a name for God is a Christian term, not Deist's term. The Deist saw God as an uninvolved benevolent Creator. The very meaning of Providence is of a God very much involved with his creation.

 

[Damocles]

Again, the historical record, from someone who actually knew him: "I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his firm belief in Christianity." *shrug*

And I should have thought that Santa was real when I was three, but it wasn't evidence of his existence, nor is somebody's assumption evidence of another's belief.