Now begins the hard work in Egypt.

[Cancel 2018. 3]

You must get a little testy when you get a bad load....try a little mouthwash....my homo acquaintances say it works for them....

he can't respond to me without attacks or hacking it up

i bet dollars to peso's he can't....watch....he will have to just ignore me because he can't control himself as he has become psychotic over his obsession with attacks. if he actually debates me with out attacks, i'll be shocked.

 

[Bonestorm]

You make up some good shit, dude....you ought try your hand at a good fictional novel.......quite an imagination....

Bush congratulated him ?
Hillary considers Mubarak a good FAMILY FRIEND....so what ?....

Um:

Statement on President Congratulating Egyptian President Mubarak on Election

The United States congratulates the Egyptian people and government for holding Egypt's first multi-candidate Presidential elections on September 7. This election represents an important step toward holding fully free and fair competitive multi-party elections, and both supporters and opponents of the government have told us that it has occasioned a vigorous national debate in Egypt on important issues. We expect it will be part of a process of continuing political reforms and that the flaws that were visible in this election will be corrected for November's parliamentary election.

The President called President Mubarak this morning to congratulate him on his victory, and say he looks forward to continuing to work with him in the coming years.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050910-11.html

 

[Onceler]

he can't respond to me without attacks or hacking it up

i bet dollars to peso's he can't....watch....he will have to just ignore me because he can't control himself as he has become psychotic over his obsession with attacks. if he actually debates me with out attacks, i'll be shocked.

What exactly are we "debating"?

I promised SF I'd lay off, so I will. Interesting that you were fully supportive of bravs' little comment, though....

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

What exactly are we "debating"?

I promised SF I'd lay off, so I will. Interesting that you were fully supportive of bravs' little comment, though....

as usual, nothing, despite my best efforts to engage you in debate. my point is, i don't think you can engage me in debate. you haven't debated a single point of mine in months, all you do is attack. if you actually engage in discussion or debate on the thread topic, i would be very surprised. i don't think anyone cares about insults or attacks, so long as there is also debate. it does not mean every single post as to be a discussion, but your record is virtually 90% attacks only.

if you change that, it would be a welcome surprise. i've been asking it of you for months now.

 

[Onceler]

as usual, nothing, despite my best efforts to engage you in debate. my point is, i don't think you can engage me in debate. you haven't debated a single point of mine in months, all you do is attack. if you actually engage in discussion or debate on the thread topic, i would be very surprised. i don't think anyone cares about insults or attacks, so long as there is also debate. it does not mean every single post as to be a discussion, but your record is virtually 90% attacks only.

if you change that, it would be a welcome surprise. i've been asking it of you for months now.

On the board, I basically debate with posters who I feel like I can learn something from, or who I can have an honest, lively difference of opinion with.

It shouldn't be important to you that I won't debate with you. As I said, I told SF I'd lay off, so I will.

 

[Canceled2]

You make up some good shit, dude....you ought try your hand at a good fictional novel.......quite an imagination....

Bush congratulated him ?
Hillary considers Mubarak a good FAMILY FRIEND....so what ?....

Bush via Rice encourgaed a true democracy to take root in Egypt and Syria-

Rice speech promotes democracy in Egypt- Now compare her speech to Obama's- Condi obviously understands foreign policy, especially in the ME, then does Obama~


June 21, 2005

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice challenged Egyptians on Monday to "lead and define" a democratic future in the Middle East.

Rice, delivering a speech at The American University in Cairo, also had strong words for Syria's government, calling on Damascus to "join the progress that is going on all around it."

"We are supporting the democratic aspirations of all people," Rice said. "As President Bush said in his second inaugural address: 'America will not impose our style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, to attain their own freedom, make their own way.' "


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"The people of Egypt should be at the forefront of this great journey, just as you have led this region through the great journeys of the past," she said.

Egyptian voters last month, in a nationwide referendum, approved a constitutional amendment to allow in September -- for the first time -- multiple candidates in a presidential election.

On Syria, Rice said the government should "make a strategic choice" to follow the path of its neighbors.

"One hundred and seventy-nine Syrian academics and human rights activists are calling upon their government to 'let the Damascus spring flower, and let its flowers bloom,' " she said. "Syria's leaders should embrace this call, and learn to trust their people."

Earlier in the day, after a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Rice said Egypt should begin taking steps toward democracy, starting with its September elections.

The United States is looking to Egypt, she said, to take a "major role in leading reform in this region."

"We have made very clear that we believe that Egypt is such an important county," Rice said at a news conference in the city of Sharm el-Sheikh with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit. "Now that President Mubarak has opened this door and taken this important first step ... it is going to be essential that those elections be free and fair, that there be an opportunity for the opposition to have access to media, that there is a sense of competitiveness in the elections."

"I think our Egyptian friends understand that, and I believe will take their responsibility seriously," she said. "People will watch what happens in Egypt, because this is an important country in the region, a region that is changing very much."

Gheit addressed concerns about the upcoming elections.

 

[zappasguitar]

he can't respond to me without attacks or hacking it up

i bet dollars to peso's he can't....watch....he will have to just ignore me because he can't control himself as he has become psychotic over his obsession with attacks. if he actually debates me with out attacks, i'll be shocked.

I must say that was really something the way you let bravo have it for his disgusting diversion from the topic.

[sarcasm]I was wrong about you before, you truly do back up your words with actions and let conservatives have it just like you do to Liberals when they stray into vulgar invective.[/sarcasm]

 

[Cancel9]

I must say that was really something the way you let bravo have it for his disgusting diversion from the topic.

[sarcasm]I was wrong about you before, you truly do back up your words with actions and let conservatives have it just like you do to Liberals when they stray into vulgar invective.[/sarcasm]

Yurtsie strongly disapproves of your attack on his harridan.

See how angry he looks?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4XK1k8Nsj6k/THRXrtvX_VI/AAAAAAAAAFI/UeFaroXZKbE/s1600/spandex.jpg

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

I must say that was really something the way you let bravo have it for his disgusting diversion from the topic.

[sarcasm]I was wrong about you before, you truly do back up your words with actions and let conservatives have it just like you do to Liberals when they stray into vulgar invective.[/sarcasm]

and its hilarious how you don't call out your fellow dems...bravo didn't distract, he RESPONDED to a post...tff how you ignore onceler's attacks and instead magically focus on me

practice what you preach you hypocritical whiner, mr. call people dried up skanks inside and out who thinks he has the moral ground to bitch about anyone else....you can take your false moral authority and shove it up your ass mr. vulgar

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

On the board, I basically debate with posters who I feel like I can learn something from, or who I can have an honest, lively difference of opinion with.

It shouldn't be important to you that I won't debate with you. As I said, I told SF I'd lay off, so I will.

translation:

yurt is right, i can't actually have a discussion with him because i've let my feelings become psychotic to the point where all i can do is insult him.

i'm just pointing out you're incapable of it. i've tried to have civil discourse with you and at every turn you act like an asshole. you're not honest in the slightest onceler. you debate with dixie, despite saying the same things about dixie. so once again, you're caught in a lie. you're simply incapable of keeping your feelings under control with me. its kind of weird. somehow i've gotten so far under your skin that you can't have a rational conversation with me. i have no idea why i mean so much to you.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Not my fault that Yurtsie had to come riding to Dixie's rescue with a continuation of his week-long meltdown...

Rescue? From WHAT exactly? Bombardment of Profoundly Pinheaded Stupidity? LMFAOOOO!

Yes Yurtsie... Please rescue me from the empty and bottomless voids of Onzies mind.... it's very dark in here!

 

[Onceler]

translation:

yurt is right, i can't actually have a discussion with him because i've let my feelings become psychotic to the point where all i can do is insult him.

i'm just pointing out you're incapable of it. i've tried to have civil discourse with you and at every turn you act like an asshole. you're not honest in the slightest onceler. you debate with dixie, despite saying the same things about dixie. so once again, you're caught in a lie. you're simply incapable of keeping your feelings under control with me. its kind of weird. somehow i've gotten so far under your skin that you can't have a rational conversation with me. i have no idea why i mean so much to you.

None of that is correct, just for the record. One need only read back through this thread to realize that.

You do seem intent on making me renege on my promise to SF. It's not really my way to let someone just speak in such a dishonest way about me, however, so I have to respond. I'll just try to do it respectfully.

And respectfully, the above comments by you are pretty off the mark.

 

[Onceler]

Rescue? From WHAT exactly? Bombardment of Profoundly Pinheaded Stupidity? LMFAOOOO!

Yes Yurtsie... Please rescue me from the empty and bottomless voids of Onzies mind.... it's very dark in here!

Are you in the back third, or the front third? Or somewhere in the middle third?

 

[cancel2 2022]

There is an extremely good and well researched article in today's Daily Mail, which describes the dangers ahead.

Forget the Facebook idealists. It's the Brotherhood we should fear

By Richard Pendlebury
Last updated at 8:54 AM on 11th February 2011

For an organisation that claims a following of millions and is feared by most Arab leaders – and many in the West – it is a very discreet HQ. My path there takes me up the cramped and dusty staircase of an apartment block overlooking the Nile in the Giza district of Cairo. Only a small sticker, which someone has tried to tear off, tells me that I am in the right place.

Uprising: Thousands of 'Facebook idealists' may have taken to the streets of Cairo to protest against Hosni Mubarak, but it is what happens in upcoming elections that should worry the West

Discreet: The Muslim Brotherhood Headquarters is in a cramped apartment block in Giza City, overlooking the Nile

Stern-faced men in casual clothes let me through a door that has been battered by secret police. I am guided to a small office off the lobby where, waiting for me, is the Professor of Geology at the University of Cairo.
Rashad Al-Bayoumi is a portly little man with buck-toothed smile, eyes that twinkle behind gold-rimmed glasses, an academic’s tweed jacket and a shiny brown tie which curves over the straining buttons of his shirt front. We are not here to talk about rock formations.

He clears his throat and wags a finger. The deputy chairman of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood movement then declares: ‘This is a very important moment in history!’
Whatever one thinks about Professor Al-Bayoumi’s organisation and its desire for an Islamic Egyptian state governed by sharia law, there is no doubting his assertion.

Threat: Until now Hosni Mubarak has used the Brotherhood to his advantage to get support from the West, but also warned them about what may happen should be resign

A couple of miles across the Nile, that great river of the ancient world, Tahrir Square continues to be filled with hundreds of thousands of mostly young, educated Egyptians demanding to be allowed into the 21st century. In three extraordinary weeks, Egypt’s ‘Facebook generation’ has almost succeeded in what the Brotherhood failed to do in its 80 years of existence: to bring a brutal dictatorship to its knees.

Far from feeling left behind, though, Professor Al-Bayoumi is delighted. His organisation, banned in Egypt for more than half a century, its members arrested, tortured and sometimes killed but inspirational to other Arab groups considered terrorists in the West, is now manoeuvring to take advantage – ‘inshallah’ – of this unexpected turn of events. Hosni Mubarak, whose enormous National Democratic Party HQ has been burned out, has long used the threat posed by the Brotherhood to shore up his support in the West.

In his only TV interview since the convulsions of the ‘January 25’ movement began, the Egyptian president cynically worried aloud that his departure would allow ‘the Brothers’, as they are known in the streets, to take over.
Now of course it goes without saying that Mubarak is and should be an embarrassment to Western democrats. Our governments have supported him because he supported our regional foreign policy objectives. His torture chambers might have been among the most busy and sophisticated, his bank accounts overflowing, but he was also the leader of the largest and most important Arab nation, a secular bulwark against the kind of Islam that groups like the Brotherhood espouses, and a friend to Israel.

The difficulty now is that increasing numbers of urban, Westernised, Egyptians are no longer prepared to accept this arrangement. No one knows how this will end: last night there were rumours that Mubarak would step down but then the president himself vowed to carry on until September.

Faces of the Brotherhood: Representatives Mohammed Mursi, Essam el-Arian, and Saad al-Katatni address a press conference in Cairo

Discussions: Despite being banned in Egypt for more than 60 years, members of the group met the country's Vice President Omar Suleiman for talks in late January

The worry now is that if free and fair elections follow this tremendous upheaval then the Brotherhood, by far the largest and most organised of the opposition groups, is in a strong position to take advantage.
The movement is anxious not to seem like the spearhead – an impression easy for Mubarak to exploit – while at the same time being an integral part of the revolt.

In his office, Professor Al-Bayoumi denied a desire to impose sharia law. Instead he used soothing phrases like democracy, respect and equality (which did not quite chime with a recent policy document which denied presidency of the country to women or Christians).

But if Mubarak goes without a military coup, the West will find out what happens to ‘democracy’ in such regions: the party which can organise the most voters to turn up on the day will win. A case in point is what happened across the border in the Palestinian territories.

What can happen: Hamas supporters celebrate their election win in the Palestian elections in 2006. The party's victory illustrated that the group who can get the most people to vote will win

Western-backed elections in 2006 resulted in the elevation to power of Hamas, considered a terrorist group by the West. Within a year, Hamas, which is an offshoot of the Brotherhood, had tidied up the loose democratic threads in Gaza by arresting, shooting or throwing off high buildings their opponents from Fatah. We shall come to Hamas and the Brotherhood later.

It is clear, though, that in Cairo the new ‘Facebook opposition’ is dazzled by the prospect of change.
In the background, the Brotherhood adjusts its tie, smiles, glosses over its deeply conservative Islamic core values, and waits for the door to be opened. A spokesman admitted earlier this week that religious aims had been put ‘on the back burner’. Thus, an Islamic state governed by sharia law seems a small step closer. The Brothers, with their ancient religious precepts, are piggy-backing a modern movement in the hope of taking Egypt back into the past.

Opposed: The Brotherhood, whose logo is on the left, have released a document saying that Christians will be barred from taking the Presidency, as well as women too

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by the scholar Hassan Al-Banna with a handful of adherents. Their credo was a rejection of Western values and a return to a pure form of Islam, as espoused by the Prophet Mohammed.

They became involved in the violent struggle against Britain’s colonial involvement in Egyptian affairs.
The group was banned in 1948 by the Egyptian authorities, who accused it of attacking British and Jewish interests. Its current clandestine status dates back to its links to an attempt on the life of President Nasser in 1954.
Thousands of suspected members were rounded up and tortured. So began a more hardline period.
One of its most prominent adherents was Sayyid Qutb, who wrote a seminal book called Milestones.

'The majority of people do not see the enemy as Iran, as Mubarak and the West tell us... The direct enemy is Israel.'

In this he advocated jihad against both Middle Eastern and Western governments, and it became a core text for future movements such as Al Qaeda and Islamic Jihad.
In recent years, the group has been periodically tolerated, but never officially allowed.
For its part, it condemned the 9/11 attacks and was in turn attacked by Osama Bin Laden for having rejected its original jihadist values.

In 2005, its members, standing as independents, won 20 per cent of the seats in the parliamentary general election. This shocked the Mubarak regime into another purge of the Brotherhood, in which hundreds were arrested and new ‘anti-terrorist’ laws introduced to bolster the already 25-year-old state of emergency.
In 2007, emboldened by their success at the ballot box, the Brotherhood’s conservative wing published a draft manifesto which laid bare their Islamist beliefs. It suggested an Iranian-style Islamic ‘guidance council’ to rubber stamp laws passed by civil bodies. Women and Christians were to be sidelined.

It was widely rejected. But the Brotherhood’s numbers and electoral ‘success’ made it strong.
Mubarak’s successful rigging of the last elections, in November, helped spark the Facebook-led backlash that brings us to where we are today.

It has been a dynamic popular uprising which in truth has made the established Egyptian opposition parties seem tired and old. One of those several opposition parties, the New Wafd Party, has its headquarters in a magnificent if careworn colonial-era mansion in Giza, on the west bank of the Nile. When I arrive, its ‘shadow government’ is in session around an enormous circular table, under a chandelier almost as large.

'This is our revolution. We do not have a single party, we have groups with similar beliefs and ideas of freedom. Our job is to change the constitution. We must do it step by step.'

New Wafd can trace its lineage back almost a century, but it is seen as the party of the middle-aged middle class, and in the last election they won just four seats.

Here I find Dr Ali Elsalmi, a charming man who calls himself ‘prime minister’ and like many claims to be yet another leader of the protests.
‘To be honest no one here trusts the West,’ he said. ‘They have brought disaster wherever they go.’

Dr Elsalmi repeated the mantra that many in the city’s main square are repeating: Whatever happens now the entente with Israel will end. ‘The majority of people do not see the enemy as Iran, as Mubarak and the West tell us,’ he says. ‘The direct enemy is Israel.’

This view is not untypical among the older opposition groups. Certainly not in the Brotherhood.
Their spokesman, Professor Al-Bayoumi, told me: ‘The Arabs want peace but Israel wants war. They have broken all their agreements in regard to a Palestinian state and settlements in the occupied territories.
‘Arab homes have been taken by Jews from Russia and other parts of the world. What kind of peace are they talking about?’
I asked him about Hamas, founded as an offshoot of the Brotherhood in 1987. ‘We will help and assist them,’ he said. ‘If you attack me, I will fight back. But do not then call me a terrorist.’

Revolution: One protester in Tahir Square said that many youngsters are bitterly opposed to the Brotherhood, while some older people support their views

One eminent writer in the Brotherhood told me that his members had worked alongside the Facebook protesters. But there are generational forces at work here. While many older Egyptians may accept the Brotherhood, some of the younger ones are bitterly opposed to the movement.

In Tahrir Square, I was accosted by a woman named Riham, who is 22. Green-eyed, pretty, in western dress, but like so many here, unemployed, she wanted to fulminate in American-accented English against the Brotherhood’s belated involvement. ‘We will not let them jump on our backs,’ she declared. ‘This is our revolution. We do not have a single party, we have groups with similar beliefs and ideas of freedom. Our job is to change the constitution. We must do it step by step. But no one here is for the Brotherhood.
‘The problem is we are politically retarded, thanks to 30 years of Mubarak, and we risk chaos for the chance of a better future.’

Chaos, of course, is what the Muslim Brotherhood thrives on, and the disturbing fact is that they are organised and, after eight decades of struggle, readying themselves for a fight.

 

[Phantasmal]

I wonder what the woman protesters are going to think about women not having a place in government if the brotherhood gets in? There were women in the crowd, along with the men, will they be denied?

I don't think the women who set up camp and stayed with their families during the protests are going to give away their rights.

 

[cancel2 2022]

I wonder what the woman protesters are going to think about women not having a place in government if the brotherhood gets in? There were women in the crowd, along with the men, will they be denied?

I don't think the women who set up camp and stayed with their families during the protests are going to give away their rights.

There may well be a civil war yet, I sincerely hope not but the stakes are incredibly high.

 

[Phantasmal]

There may well be a civil war yet, I sincerely hope not but the stakes are incredibly high.

It seems to be the birth pangs of democracy.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Are you in the back third, or the front third? Or somewhere in the middle third?

How the hell should I know? I can't see a damn thing! The mindlessness seems to go on forever, like the empty void of space! I kept thinking I would eventually come to some source of light, but so far, NADDA.. It's getting colder, and I don't know if I can find my way back out or not.... Please Yurtsie, come rescue me!

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

None of that is correct, just for the record. One need only read back through this thread to realize that.

You do seem intent on making me renege on my promise to SF. It's not really my way to let someone just speak in such a dishonest way about me, however, so I have to respond. I'll just try to do it respectfully.

And respectfully, the above comments by you are pretty off the mark.

my comments are 100% true. for example i created a thread for you and i to debate without insults (because you were saying i insult all the time). your first post in that thread was an insult. even other members who are sick of you crap called you an asshole for that. you do in fact attack dixie with the same insults. see, most people are capable of having a rational discussion with their political opponents, for instance, bfgrn, him and don't see eye to eye on nearly anything and we trade insults, but, we engage in good debates at times because he isn't afraid to debate.

so once again, onceler delves into the lies instead of facing the truth and having a rational conversation.....like i said earlier, i didn't think you could do it. you simply are incapable of overcoming whatever is you have out for me and having a rational discussion. when it comes to me you're simply psychotic and irrational. its weird and perhaps disturbing. even when i ignore your insults, you continue them without stop. yet you can't simple have a rational discussion.

think about that....and hopefully you can get over what ever ails you.

 

[Cancel9]

Yurtsie looks pissed.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4XK1k8Nsj6k/THRXrtvX_VI/AAAAAAAAAFI/UeFaroXZKbE/s1600/spandex.jpg